48 Replies Latest reply: Nov 3, 2010 10:06 PM by Stephen Johannes RSS

How do you picture a Mentor?

Otto Gold
Currently Being Moderated

Dear SCNer,

I would like to hear your opinion about the SAP Mentors program. I would like to know what are your expectations - to learn if you think the Mentors meet your expectations and if not, what could we do to improve it and much more (well, we will most probably will not be able to change the mentors, but can improve the ways how people think about the Mentors and their purpose).

I had my own expectations during the months here on SCN and now I know how out of truth they were. Took me weeks and months, thread, blogs, emails and comments to understand how it works, what is the purpose (and how it differs from my initial picture). Now I wonder if the picture how people (fellow SCNers) think about the Mentors and how the Mentors think about themselves match together.

Thank you for any comments, time and effort you put into the comment and your SCN engagement,

regards Otto

  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
    Thomas Zloch
    Currently Being Moderated

    Congratulations for being one, by the way, is this a new lemon or did I just sleep?

    <removed by author>

    Thomas

     

    Edited by: Thomas Zloch on Oct 4, 2010 5:08 PM

    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
      Otto Gold
      Currently Being Moderated

      Hope to be useful. People like you could provide a bigger piece of experience:)) and I feel I have so much to learn.

      What are your expectations about the Mentors?

      Cheers Otto

      • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
        kishan P
        Currently Being Moderated

        To me, it's always been the people with lemon.

         

        On a serious note, I do not have much clue about the program. My initial (early days) thought was that, they probably have a certain group of Mentees under them, whom they guide in their respective areas.

         

        Later on, I've come to realise that really isn't so. But rather a Mentor who is just a learned person distributing knowledge and attends the Meet the Mentors program at Tech Eds

         

        ps: Congratulations for earning the Lemon.

         

        pk

        • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
          Otto Gold
          Currently Being Moderated

          Later on, I've come to realise that really isn't so. But rather a Mentor who is just a learned person distributing knowledge and attends the Meet the Mentors program at Tech Eds

          Hello Kishan, the reason i ask is because the TechEds are not like every week, right? So my question is how do you picture the daily routine of a Mentor, how do you connect these guys with SCN? How do you, a man who didn´t come through the details (and so could play a role of an "average SCNer":))), want them to engage?

          Well, this is

          a) a question about a theory (if they could, if they would, if they would like to...)

          b) about a picture of the group, about the reputation, what people think when see a lemon:))

          Thank you for the time and opinion,

          cheers Otto

           

        • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
          Otto Gold
          Currently Being Moderated

          But rather a Mentor who is just a learned person distributing knowledge and attends the Meet the Mentors program at Tech Eds

          @Kishan: not many came to talk... why so? I can understand you´re from different parts of the world, but are people affraid of the mentors? Or do you think we don´t have anything to talk about?

           

          Also if I am correct, you can nominate youself as a Mentor :-0))

          @Lakshmipathi: since many people think being a mentor == have plenty of SCN points, why didn´t you nominate yourself?

           

          1 year entitlement, but I never seen a Mentor been stripped from the Lemon.

          @Juan: Ok, put your finger on a name and we can discuss this. It´s not like I could do anything about it, but all the Mentors I met at EMEA Berlin 2010 were very nice and I would not strip anyone of them. Now it´s your turn...

           

          inside the Mentors Home you could add structured info about the projects and their status (for example, the Certification 5 findings).

          @Juan: I agree, I would like to help on this point, because even I don´t know many details about their projects and outside-SCN work for theCommunities.

          end of part 1

           

          • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
            Otto Gold
            Currently Being Moderated

            Mr.Otto,

            @Mahesh: let´s skip this Mr. part:)) I am no mister/master of anything:)) We are all friends here. I appreciate it but makes me feel a little weird:))

             

            Parallel to this thread one thread is there "remote support from SDN'. for this we can use Mentors(with their support) and build a remote support forums/interactions.

            @Mahesh: I don´t understand why would Mentors do this. They don´t get paid for this and vene not everything is transparent to the community, there is a lot of effort and time behind being a mentor. I am afraid they don´t have time for this. By the way, they/we arenot gods and cannot answer everything (check my activity at Adobe forms forum), I am not able to answer like halfof the questions. Feels likeyou want to have an OSS servicefor free from faces you know...

            By the way, many of the Mentors are very good at what they´re doing what means they have very demanding jobs... which they don´t want to lose. Yoiu would feel the same way, wouldn´t you?

             

            Congrats Otto on being one among the "Elites" !!

            @Suhas: I don´t like this elites thing. I am sure that they´re plenty of people working with SAP who are far better in what they do than me. I don´t felite like any elite. These guys are nice and skilled, but not like the best of the best. Atleast I think that plenty of the superheros were not found yet...

             

            this is not necessarily true: He talked about creating a sponsorship of the Product Area for the Mentors in their area so the Mentors can interact with SAP. That confused me: an SAP Mentor is a top community influencer, but he doesn't even need to know some SAP people to give feedback?

            @Tobias: I don´t need the video, I was there. On stage:)) The problem is not with the mentors or the access. We are offered access to numerous people who DO things in SAP. The problem is we don´t have "many" mentors and the tradition is relatively new. Compare with the number of SAP people, compare with their activity on SCN etc. etc. So it is more like not all the people responsible for things in SAP know us, want usto provide feedback etc. etc. This will work as intended in few years, but the company big like SAP has to change slowly. We cannot expect miracles in a day. Mentors are flexible, but SAP needs time and a little help. A success story very much like any customer:))

            end of part 2

             

            • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
              Otto Gold
              Currently Being Moderated

              Whereas I believe that most Moderatos and Mentors dont reply to forum questons because of the low quality of the question. Some of them are authors of standard SAP Press books, so IMHO they don't respond to forum questions because >50% of the question done can be resolved with searching, SAP Help and training (that's what's missing most).

              @Tobias: I am not sure how many of you guys do this "answering" like everyday. I have been doing this for like a year in Adobe forms forum under NetWeaver and I must tell you it is sometimes very difficult for me to repeat the same for like 10x. Sometimes I tell the guy to search, sometimes I search for him/her because it is difficult to search for a newbie, who does not know the keywords or something... But sometimes this bore me to death. Ok, i don´t this for having fun, but anyway, sometimes it is hell to answer the same again and again.

               

              Now as I say this keep in mind that my opinion is one out of 90+ folks, so I'm not going to claim this is official stance, but rather a model that I know several fellow SAP Mentors are exploring/find interesting.

              @Stephen: Everything I say is my opinion only and hasnothing to do with the official stance.

              I am only trying to understand what does the community think about the mentors and how could we help everybody to have some more fun (and outcome/ experience). SAP "product people" start to live with the Mentors, maybe the Community should start learning this as well... everything needs some effort...

              Cheers Otto

               

              • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                Vivek Seelin
                Currently Being Moderated

                Hi,

                 

                Interesting discussion n to add to it....

                 

                The term 'MENTOR' is derived from greek mythology atleast that's what my history knowledge says... which is a term which could be equated to a father who takes special care or attention of you know who...

                 

                With that as my context a few thoughts...

                 

                - How about some kind of Mentee program, wherein the mentors handpick people who are active in the SCN / live sap community events etc. and are doing a good work at it and kind of assist / guide them as & when possible, it would be a great mutual learning exp.

                 

                - To take that a step further, the Mentee can have an icon as well n a click on the icon can take the person direct to his / her mentor, thereby adding further value to the Mentor. As an age old Indian saying goes... it is not the one who says that is the destination, but a person who equips (read knowledge) you to make that journey for whom your head should bow in respect

                 

                - Another thought, with Ctrl + C & Ctrl + V, I can get a lot of points in the forums, but would that really add value?? I doubt, so how about having the Mentors assigning merit points to the contributions be it in threads or blogs etc which shows up on the user profile for contributions which really add value to the community, this would be some kind of certificate of merit

                 

                - The stars (silver, gold, platinum etc) can be linked to the points assigned by the mentors or the gurus in the field & not to the points gained by just merely answering a query.

                 

                - And ya... how about the size n color of the lemon next to the mentor depend on the activity & contributions made by the mentor, so if a mentor is not active in any medium, then the size can shrink n the color fade from bright to dull.... (psst... Mentors pls don't get mad at me for this...)

                 

                Well there are more, but guess this posting has become too long... so I close it here...

                 

                 

                Regards,

                VIvek

                • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                  Matthew Billingham
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  >

                  Vivek wrote:

                   

                  > - Another thought, with Ctrl + C & Ctrl + V, I can get a lot of points in the forums, but would that really add value?? I doubt,...

                   

                  You're right. Which is why if you were caught doing it, the moderators would ensure your account was guestified and the points reduced to zero!

                  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                    Vivek Seelin
                    Currently Being Moderated

                    @ Matt,

                     

                    Not sure on what you interpreted from my statement, it was a metaphor to state that it is more valuable to link the Stars showing up (Platinum, Gold, Silver et al) for points awarded by Mentors / Subject Matter Experts & their likes... rather than linking it to points obtained by replying to a query, which in many cases is less said the better. (If time permits will paste some threads which would stress the fact of what I meant further).

                     

                     

                    Regards,

                    Vivek

                    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                      Julius von dem Bussche
                      Currently Being Moderated

                      If being a SAP Mentor ever has anything to do with ponits system, then I will pack my bags and leave SCN.

                       

                      I do however find it appropriate for SAP Mentors to show some presence on SCN, particularly if they use it.

                       

                      The whole idea (in my books) is that if you can benefit from SCN content, then one should also put something back into it where you can to maintain a "balance of content".

                       

                      Cheers,

                      Julius

                      • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                        Otto Gold
                        Currently Being Moderated

                        Exactly Julius!:))

                        By the way, <off topic flag raised>, last weeks a new wave of "unbalanced" ladies and gentlemen come to the Adobe forms forum and ask for help without having a single point (or anything suitable to their 20-50-hundred questions) on their account. I started to tell them not to expect any help. How do you guys approach this problem? Any ideas I could use?:))

                        Cheers Oto

              • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                Stephen Johannes
                Currently Being Moderated

                @Otto:

                 

                Please don't worry about the impression you are creating here.  I actually think this is great thread.

                 

                Now I made my comment about my opinion only being one of 90+ just to let everyone know that my view was not the universally accepted view among the SAP Mentors.  I think you have learned so far that even among the group there are areas where a consensus has not been reached.

                 

                 

                Take care,

                 

                Stephen

                • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                  Otto Gold
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  I actually think this is great thread.

                  Me too! I think the Mentors initiative could use some more feedback.

                  We could:

                  a) start something new, what community would like us to start

                  b) communicate better that we don´t do, what people think we do/ are supposed to do

                  Time to time I read comments saying something like "we don´t understand the mentors program" or "we don´t like it". And that is not something I can live with. So trying to gather some feedback.

                  The only problem with this thread, or with this whole category, is that I can see the same faces around. This is great that we have a group of people who like to talk, who care etc. But that does not help with the feedback thing:))

                  Cheers Otto

                   

  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
    Lakshmipathi G
    Currently Being Moderated

    According to me it is one more feather to your cap.  During my initial period, I have gone through in SDN to know more about Mentors role and came to understand that they have been nominated by their friends based on their participation in the community.  Also if I am correct, you can nominate youself as a Mentor :-0))

     

    thanks

    G. Lakshmipathi

  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
    Anton Wenzelhuemer
    Currently Being Moderated

    How do I picture a mentor?

     

    Hmm, if I see one I take out my Nikon and picture the mentor.

     

    Easy.

    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
      Otto Gold
      Currently Being Moderated

      I take out my Nikon and picture the mentor

      You remind me of Vitaliy:))))) For a second I was convinced he had no idea how screenshots work:)))

      • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
        Juan Reyes
        Currently Being Moderated

        SAP Mentors are supposed to be members of the community that stand out due to their knowledge, experience, leadership, capacity to steer the community, etc...

         

        Some of them are high profile members of the community you see them on a daily basis around, others I had hardly seen around... at the end of the day I guess is a voluntary program. One thing I don't understand is that the program (at least initially) was suppose to be a 1 year entitlement, but I never seen a Mentor been stripped from the Lemon.

         

        I think the people who run the SAP Mentor program should make an extra effort to advertise the projects their members are involved in and the benefits of the program to the regular Joes in the community

         

        Thats my 2 cents.

         

        Regards

        Juan

        • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
          Otto Gold
          Currently Being Moderated

          Hello Juan,

          thank you for the opinion. I agree with your points. I only wonder if you could name any specific activities you would like to see about Mentors, if you could outline how to advertise the project - I mean: what would you do if you were the guy responsible?

          Hope I don´t have to say exmplicitely I don´t ask for fun but to help the mentor program and so will try to promote the ideas from this thread. Thank you for the time and effort,

          cheers Otto

           

          • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
            Juan Reyes
            Currently Being Moderated

            If you have a look at the SAP Mentor (Home) in the SAP Community tab, you can see their latest blogs, webinars, and ocational announcement but their no real info on how the Mentor shape/steer the community. I haven't come across one single article/blog (beside Denis Howett's) that explain how the program use their people to improve the community experience.

             

            Regards

            Juan

            • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
              Otto Gold
              Currently Being Moderated

              I read the page, I understand how it works. But that does not help. I need opinions from outside. Insiders agree with each other and are not able to innovate, come up with new stuff, don´t understand what the community thinks (no offense, they do understand but I need to explain what is my motivation...). How would you want the mentors to approach the problems, the community... You don´t need to read or study anything, what I ask about should be clear for any outsider.

              I would like to know what would you do/ suggest we do to help people understand how are the mentors, what they do and how they are helpful on first sight...

              Br, Otto

               

              • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                Juan Reyes
                Currently Being Moderated

                I would like to see Mentors been more hands on...  Lets be honest, the gross volume of users come to SDN with questions, only part of the Mentors are active contributors on the forums (correct me if I'm wrong), also inside the Mentors Home you could add structured info about the projects and their status (for example, the Certification 5 findings).

                 

                Regards

                Juan

              • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                mahesh chandra
                Currently Being Moderated

                Mr.Otto,

                i agree with Juan points (not active, 1 year entitlement) , when i first noticed the lemon symbol i searched for  "mentor" and found mentors are those with good experience and Knowledge in their stream/subject. but till now i didn't see anyone (mentor) answering to a Forum questions(mainly in portal forum). some mentors are active because they are moderators or to discuss in community discussions.i can call an moderator to respond on a thread by just click a button(abuse). but no way to call/active the mentor on my question.in some cases when the complexity of question is high or the forum members are not able to find a solution then if there is option to call a mentor to respond on this then its a good idea to solve the question. i think in this way we can use the mentors to solve our problems

                you can see the opinion of a mentor&moderator about mentor is here (by Craig)

                http://forums.sdn.sap.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1296176

                 

                Congrats for being a Mentor

                regards

                Mahesh

                • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                  Juan Reyes
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  Hi Mahesh,

                   

                  i can call an moderator to respond on a thread by just click a button(abuse)

                  If its a thread that requires moderation yes, I seen users using the abuse report to bring attention towards an unanswered question which is not what the abuse report is for.  :-D

                   

                  Regards

                  Juan

                  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                    mahesh chandra
                    Currently Being Moderated

                    hi Juan,

                    i feel the same, when we want to bring attention towards our unanswered thread to a mentor. for this a button and conditional access to use this button required (like active XXX members only can have access to button).

                    Parallel to this thread one thread is there "[remote support from SDN'|http://forums.sdn.sap.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1798796&tstart=0]. for this we can use Mentors(with their support)  and build a remote support forums/interactions.

                     

                    Ask not what SAP can do for the Mentors, but what the Mentors can do for SAP."

                    i don't know who said this one but remembered where i read

                    http://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/Community/SAPCommunityNetwork-SAP+Mentors

                     

                    regards

                    Mahesh

                     

                    Edited by: maheshchandra.lanco on Oct 6, 2010 3:25 PM(thread link)

                    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                      Juan Reyes
                      Currently Being Moderated

                      I have to disagree, Mentors are volunteers, the option to highlight a question to a mentor is simple non-applicable as they are in no obligation to answer...

                       

                      I do will like to see Mentors more active on the Forums (without taking credit away to some of them that are very active and indeed topic leaders)

                       

                      Regards

                      Juan

                      • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                        Otto Gold
                        Currently Being Moderated

                        If it would be possible, guys, could we concentrate on not-real-time activities? I know that most of the mentors don´t have the time to come to SCN every day, every week or even month. But if you could suggest something what could be done mostly offline, so one can arrange the activities and have some "real" life, "real" job, "real" family etc.

                        Many of those nice people cannot visit the forums and that should not disqualify them as mentors... at least I think so.

                        Do you think that the forum visibility would be the only one that would matter? I mean it would be much more important than any other activities? I hope it´s not like that.

                        Thank you, Otto

                         

                        • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                          Suhas Saha
                          Currently Being Moderated

                          Congrats Otto on being one among the "Elites" !!

                           

                          Cheers,

                          Suhas

                        • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                          Juan Reyes
                          Currently Being Moderated

                          Do you think that the forum visibility would be the only one that would matter?

                          Not at all... I said I will "Like" to see them around more often... I suggested the "project area" inside the Mentors home so people can keep track of the Mentors offline work. I'm pretty sure the community will enjoy following their achivements in all the different tasks they volunteer for.

                           

                          Regards

                          Juan

                          • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                            Tobias Hofmann
                            Currently Being Moderated

                            Juan,

                             

                            Agreed.

                             

                            For us - the outsiders - it is hard to understand why someone got nominated and what they are doing to justify the nomination. The nomination is not transparent; you nominate someone and SAP decided whom to take (that's OK: SAP makes the rules).

                            After all, there are SAP Mentors that have < 200 lifetime points, created an SCN account after they got nominated, are not active (blog, at least from time to time?). For someone that has no access to DSAG or ASUG or XYZ it is not easy to follow the nomination logic. So I second your wish for:

                            keep track of the Mentors offline work

                            to know what they are doing. Like: publishing on the mentor site paper / articles they publish or webcasts they held (Marting Gillet is doing a good work in spreading the word about his activities, but mostly only on twitter).

                             

                            @Otto: What I thought about SAP Mentors is that they have not only a deep understanding of their field (implementations, ramp-ups, trainings) and because of this good connections to the Solution/Product Manager at SAP for their respective area. But listening to Mark Yolton at TechED Berlin (thanks to the decision to use flash for virtual teched I cannot copy & paste the link to the interview, please navigate to: http://www.virtualsapteched.com and then to Interviews to listen to it) this is not necessarily true: He talked about creating a sponsorship of the Product Area for the Mentors in their area so the Mentors can interact with SAP. That confused me: an SAP Mentor is a top community influencer, but he doesn't even need to know some SAP people to give feedback?

                             

                            br,

                            Tobias

                • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                  Tobias Hofmann
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  but till now i didn't see anyone (mentor) answering to a Forum questions(mainly in portal forum).

                  We have had some very active SAP Mentors in the portal forums (Michael, Detlev) that contributed (and from time to time still are), but the majority of the SAP Mentor nominations (Butch, Dagfinn, Darren, Matt, Robert) done in the portal area are not or rarely active in SCN (blog, articles or forum).

                  But you shouldn't look at SCN points - most of the Mentors have a low point rate - but more at the community aspect: most of them are active outside SCN: ASUG. As ASUG is the way to go when you want to interact with SAP, these Mentors have a good reputation and are really doing something. For instance, Butch may not be active in SCN, but he is an ASUG volunteer for Portals. And depending on their work they may also influence clients (consulting) and the product (ramp-up) in a way that is not visible for us, but to others.

                   

                  br,

                  Tobias

                  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                    mahesh chandra
                    Currently Being Moderated

                    Agreed and Understood. To comment more on "Mentor" i have to gain more experience on these terms. ASUG completely new for me and looking for it in sdn. i saw Detlev's contribution in forums( and some other moderators).the way they are answering is a new one ( includes experience and knowledge) so i thought if there are more active in forums its more useful.but now i can't think about it

                     

                    Thanks& Regards

                    Mahesh

                    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                      Tobias Hofmann
                      Currently Being Moderated

                      Mahesh,

                       

                      don't confuse Mentor with Moderator. Wht do you mean with

                      they are answering is a new one ( includes experience and knowledge)

                      Moderators and Mentors are the only ones that give high quality answers? Out of my head I can name a few people in the portal forum that give high quality answers and are neither Mentors nor Moderators.

                       

                      According to the SAP Mentors site, you get a Mentor because of what you are doing. If the Mentor wasn't active in SCN before, there is no need to get involved, as it didn't matter in the first place.

                       

                      If you and others think that the active involvment of Moderatos and / or Mentors in the forum isn't enough, there is Ideas Place: make an Idea: X forum points is a must to keep status.

                       

                      Whereas I believe that most Moderatos and Mentors dont reply to forum questons because of the low quality of the question. Some of them are authors of standard SAP Press books, so IMHO they don't respond to forum questions because >50% of the question done can be resolved with searching, SAP Help and training (that's what's missing most).

                       

                      br,

                      Tobias

                      • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                        Stephen Johannes
                        Currently Being Moderated

                        Tobias,

                         

                        I think what Mark was talking about is the concept that the SAP Mentors have discussed among ourselves about having more formal SIG's among the SAP Mentors and building more formal connections among these SIG's to the corresponding SAP Product Management.

                         

                        The best example is the certification five and taking this model and cloning it to other areas.  For CRM we have been loosely trying to come up with a "SAP CRM 6" working group to tackle a few key issues surrounding SAP CRM.  The idea is instead of each one of us going to our product management contacts directly we would funnel the conversation to a single contact point with SAP.  Due to teched season and busy schedules of everyone, we still have not quite got there yet.

                         

                        That being said I think the SIG concept would involve a few key people as the primary core and bring the rest of the SAP Mentor group, and general community as needed. Best example a lot of the SAP Mentors are interested in certification and help provide feedback to the certification five as needed, however most of us aren't drive the issue, but rather providing support.

                         

                        Now as I say this keep in mind that my opinion is one out of 90+ folks, so I'm not going to claim this is official stance, but rather a model that I know several fellow SAP Mentors are exploring/find interesting.

                         

                        Take care,

                         

                        Stephen

                        • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                          Julius von dem Bussche
                          Currently Being Moderated

                          I generally think of myself as an SAP security mentor, because that is my field of interest which I put effort into.

                           

                          But there is more to good software than the various aspects of security. There is also user friendliness, and ease of implementation, and sustainability, etc etc. Even the marketing folks are able to influence software, but that is debatable merit in the techie realm

                           

                          I like to see SAP Mentors active on SCN blogs, wikis and articles and showing some presence in forums because I think it is appropriate.

                           

                          As with all contributions to SCN, it is voluntary.

                           

                          Cheers,

                          Julius

    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
      Robert Pattinson
      Currently Being Moderated

      Hope to be useful. People like you could provide a bigger piece of experience:)) and I feel I have so much to learn. <commercial link removed by moderator>.

       

      Edited by: Thomas Zloch on Mar 2, 2012

  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
    Pushkar Patil
    Currently Being Moderated

    I came across this blog [What can an SAP Mentor do for you?|http://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/scn/weblogs?blog=/pub/wlg/21655]

    by Srini Tanikela.

     

    -Pushkar

     

     

    P.S. Unfortunatly I can't check the video right now; seems company's not happy with videos and blocked it but for sure it worked for me at my place.

  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
    Matthew Billingham
    Currently Being Moderated

    I think Vivek was suggesting that a point awarded by a mentor should have more value than one awarded by a mere mortal such as myself.

     

    @Otto - Hit that abuse button, and hope that the moderator of the Adobe forms forum is conscientious. ( No, I don't know who it is ).

    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
      Otto Gold
      Currently Being Moderated

      @Matt: a) I have never seen any moderator in Adobe forms forums (except me without M and Chintan Virani with broad knowledge) b) I was told not to report these "parasites", because they do not act against the rules (I believe there isno section about a fair use of SCN or something) and because they don´t see the abuse message

      Cheers Otto

       

      • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
        Tobias Hofmann
        Currently Being Moderated

        Otto,

         

        just because a person has no points, but questions, doesn't mean that you have to be rude to them; calling them parasites makes we want to report your post as abuse. As long as the question is valid, the questioner deserves respect. There are leechers (200 questions, 2 pts) out there, definitely. Sometimes that is because of a corporate policy (only ask, never answer!) or because of a shared account.

         

        Any ideas you could use?

        - You should always remember the time when you too did know little about Adobe forms.

        - You can ignore the beginners, show them help.sap.com or give an answer.

        - As an SAP Mentor you should attract people to actively participate in SCN and not to create an arrogant elite by pushing away the maiority (aka: the non-trained)

        - There is still the "did not search" abuse option

         

        br,

        Tobias

        • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
          Otto Gold
          Currently Being Moderated

          Ok, I admit this word was little over the limit. But time to time I see people with ...I don´t know the idiom in English, in my country we say "with a skin of a hippo". They ask stupid questions, don´t rew-ard the answers, don´t provide any feedback, never answer and some of them reported me for "reminding" them (politely...) how this thing works.

          I am no rude person, but sometimes... it is too much of ignorance for a man. I know whatI am suppoed to do as a mentor andI would behave the same even without being one, this site is not about points or lemons. But how would this site grow where we are now if everybody would be such a "hippo"?

          I answer even the questions of the beginners, I help, I appreciate their feedback if it is something extra, I send private emails to encourage people... but you don´t have to teach me how to be nice. Teach me how to deal with the "hippos".

          Let me point out one last point. I am not rude to any of those guys. I used the word to ask you about the ways you deal with them. I am being constructive, I want to know, I want to learn. If you want to report me for asking "not-nice-questions", ok, do it.

          Well, maybe I should ask these questions in private. But I wanted to learn from your feedback, because it could help me become a better person. Hopefully a better mentor.

          Otto

           

          • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
            Tobias Hofmann
            Currently Being Moderated

            Otto,

             

            SCN is a volunteer based participation. Nobody is forcing you to answer their questions. You feel your contribution won't be recognized be them? Well, ignore them. The question has been asked and answered several times before, report an abuse.

             

            br,

            Tobias

            • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
              Matthew Billingham
              Currently Being Moderated

              The forums are not a substitute for research; searching the forums, searching via other search engine, reading the documentation, buying a book, going on a training course. Questions which are frequently asked, very basic, lazy, or too general don't really have a place in these forums. If a question results in many answers containing only links, (or copy pastes from sap help and other sites), then it indicates the question is in one of those categories.

               

              But if people ask questions which are not in those categories, never contribute otherwise, and don't respond after the initial questions - well that's their choice. They can have only up to ten open questions at once.

               

              So the non-community minded are tolerated - though encouraged to participate -  but cheats, plagiarisers, link farmers, txtspkers, the lazy and the FAQqers aren't.

               

              I think that's broadly the opinion of the moderators after we've discussed at length, and pretty much how we approach the (necessarily subjective) task. It's not going to change much now. ( It's also the approach on many of the other forums I access - it might not benefit an individual, but it benefits the forum as a whole).

               

              There is tension between Mentor orientation and Moderator orientation. But we should not be in conflict. Especially moderators who are mentors as that would lead to all sorts of mental health issues...

               

              If there isn't a dedicated moderator to a forum, it's still worth reporting posts that you think might be breaking the rules, as there will be moderators who can take action. It's up to the moderators to decide whether the abuse report is valid or not, so there's no need for reluctance.

              • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                Thomas Zloch
                Currently Being Moderated

                Very well said, if I may say that.

                Thomas

                • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                  Julius von dem Bussche
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  Great post by Matt. I completely agree.

                   

                  After a long day (which starts with early morning Abuse Reports) I enjoy first contributing a bit to the security area.

                   

                  I then read the security blogs and think a bit about the wiki while paging through the Abuse Reports from other areas and wander a bit into other areas to look for interesting stuff (or flamewars which might need my help).

                   

                  Before doing anything outside of my area, I check the moderator forum.

                   

                  At some stage (if I get this far) I take relief in the Coffee Corner, or might even answer some questions in the Test & Playground forum.

                   

                  If Mentors (and Moderators and all others) read the "Rules of Engagement" then everything is "walkies woodhouse"...

                   

                  Cheers,

                  Julius

  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
    Zal Parchem
    Currently Being Moderated

    Well, Otto - seems the thread has gotten a bit long, so why should I be shy about adding to the length? Length seems to be quite common with yours since many times you pose u201Chuman interaction or interest topicsu201D.  I am quite a lurker because I like to hold off before entering comments to see where a discussion is leading and how sustained it is before jumping in and providing another cut on the topic.  I think I have seen a good amount here and maybe by putting my two cents into the pot it will be somewhat valuable...

     

    I am a bit more active than most in the SAP B1 Forums and have started doing a few blogs; let's say "stretching the wings" a bit.  To be honest, I cannot provide any input or feedback as to how I picture a Mentor for the following reasons...:

     

     

    Even though I have used the forums for some time, I am not versed well enough to understand what a Mentor is supposed to be or to do as established by the folks who started the Mentor program.  You said yourself it took you months to understand it.  Sorry, but I just do not have the time to do that u2013 a search produced 416 entries.  Went to Wiki, but it is down,  LOL u2013 I have got to do some catching up for the SAP B1 world in the blogging area!  So, where does one find the definitive word of what a Mentor is?  Providing that single piece of information might be a good starting point to your discussion because folks could say u201COK, Mentor is A and I feel as if it might be good for them to be G alsou201D.  If there is nowhere to find that information, fine, because all of this is voluntary and it leads to the next question of...

     

    Is there even a requirement for a Mentor to do anything at all in order to become or to stay being a Mentor?  Maybe they are just recognized as being very knowledgeable folks in their areas, and that is great to know they have a lot of knowledge, but what kind of actions (or interactions) could I as a semi-newbie expect or anticipate or request from the Mentors?  As an u201Coutsideru201D (non-mentor or non-mentee), I do not feel comfortable commenting on how I would picture a Mentor, unless I knew if there are even any requirements.  Which leads to a comment of...

     

    I am sure I do not understand the overriding idea of how the Mentors think of themselves.  I picture a Mentor as being one entity and they might picture themselves completely different.  A Mentor seems (emphasize seems) to be one who is seen as being a great asset to SAP's communities and sometimes takes the time to post blogs, answer a lot of questions in the forums, because...

     

    It is interesting to see how a discussion here has again turned into quite a bit of talk about the forums and has centered itself around some pretty common topics on the forums (u201Cparasitesu201D or u201Cthe qualityu201D or u201Clurkersu201D - Yikes!  Like Me!).  Since the forum is such a highly used area of SAP,  I would think that the Mentor, by virtue of receiving the u201Clemon statusu201D in SAP, would be one person who would be concerned about how the forums are being used.  I know this is not to be a discussion about forums, but it does add a viewpoint to it because...

     

    Continued.....

     

    Edited by: kishan P on Nov 1, 2010 9:41 AM

    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
      kishan P
      Currently Being Moderated

      Zal Parchem's second part of the post:

       

      I think individuals are somehow nominated or selected to be Mentors, but what are the decision points that they actually become a Mentor?  Who decides, who says, who bestows the honor and WHY?  I know a person who is just phenomenal in the SAP B1 world (Gordon Du) but does not have the Mentor's u201CLemonu201D.  The fellow has over 40K points and works passionately to help anyone, any where, any how to understand SAP B1 better.  He listens to the u201Cleachesu201D or u201Cparasitesu201D or whatever they are called and actively engages them in getting the answer to them after putting in the appropriate questions to clarify what those folks are looking for in the posting.  I have personally met this fellow and, believe me, his intentions are solely to get anyone the answer they need whether they contribute or not.  That is just one of the type of personality traits that might be in a Mentor because...

       

      In my humble opinion, a Mentor (not necessarily in SAP, but conceptually) is a person who helps others, goes out of his/her way to find/search out/watch for those individuals in their community (again not SAP specific) who have the potential to become Mentors, leaders, or volunteers in a specific area.  The Mentors would regularly interact with that person to give them not only skills but also pointers to turn around and help others in a Mentor or non-Mentor role.  It is just not that a Mentor is full of knowledge, but they go beyond that to be a developer of others.  When I was in business, I had a company that actively pursued mentoring inside the company and outside the company.  It was pretty clear for me to remain having the Mentor recognition was that, after I had received mentoring in one area,  it was expected I would turn around and help two or three other individuals whether they were internal or external.  But with your thread here, I am sort of in a circle because...

       

      Even though I have used the forums for some time, I am not versed enough to understand what a Mentor...

       

      LOL u2013 well just my two cents worth be as they may...

       

      Regards - Zal  

       

      EDIT PART: WTH is wrong here - this thing looks like crap with no formatting working???  I had this nicely broken out by points - ggeeeezzzz....oh well I hope you get the ideas...

       

      Edited by: Zal Parchem on Oct 31, 2010 7:50 AM

       

      Edited by: kishan P on Nov 1, 2010 9:43 AM - It works now. There's a 1500-characters per post limitation. Or is it back to 2,500 now?

      • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
        Zal Parchem
        Currently Being Moderated

        Thanks Kishan - did not know that...   &:-D

         

        NOTE: for one blissful moment this morning around 3:30am Eastern Standard Time, everyone's points were being displayed as "Zero, Null, Nada, Nothing".  I thought SDN had finally attained Nirvana and we were all equal just helping each other out with no need for the rush or competition of points.  At 4:15, when I got back in, the points were restored...oh well...

        • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
          Stephen Johannes
          Currently Being Moderated

          Hey folks a few more thoughts:

           

          1) Great comments by everyone.  I really like the discussion going on here and it has lead myself to coming up with a few ideas to resolve some of the problems presented

           

          2) On the SAP Mentor/Moderator/Presence in SCN.  Well being both an SAP Mentor and Moderator, I am here, but I will admit I tend to spend my spare time on "big issues" when contributing.  In other words I try to focus on contributing in areas that have more of a global impact that just a pure one-off problem.   Don't get wrong though, if the one-off problem is something that I'm personally working on, then yep I will contribute on it. 

           

          The best way to describe it is that I would like to use my moderator/SAP Mentor soapbox in a way that impacts my area of SAP Community in the broadest fashion.  I still worry about the day-to-day issues, but don't try to "sweat the small stuff", and choose my battles wisely. 

           

          Take care,

           

          Stephen

          • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
            Otto Gold
            Currently Being Moderated

            I am one these Mentors for more than a year and found this older thread I never marked answered. And I wonder... do we do good job? What do the SCNers think? Do SCNers even care? Do you see any benefit?

            Cheers Otto

            • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
              Jen Yakimoto
              Currently Being Moderated

              Gold Otto - In particular youu2019re a good mentor. Not only in technical aspect but in other stuffs as well like job search, CV. Is there other ranking higher than mentor like angel may be ? You could be one.

            • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
              Erika Atencio
              Currently Being Moderated

              Well, besides articles and blogs, I don't know which other things Mentors do. 

              It would be interesting to know which achievements you mentors have done, and why you have got your mentor status.

              • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                Lukas Weigelt
                Currently Being Moderated

                I just realized again how hilarious it is to See Otto's golden melon and his golden badge. Nomen est Omen ))

              • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                Ravi Sankar
                Currently Being Moderated

                 

                Well, besides articles and blogs, I don't know which other things Mentors do. 

                > It would be interesting to know which achievements you mentors have done, and why you have got your mentor status.

                 

                Recently, in an article, I come across with a statement about mentors.

                 

                http://www.jonerp.com/pdf/sap_certification_from_cert5.pdf

                 

                SAP Mentors are considered by SAP as being among the 'best of the best.' They are selected as Mentors for their multi-disciplinary skills.

                 

                Can any mentor throw some light on which areas they have the best skills and also the areas in which they have more/notable contribution.

                 

                 

                and why you have got your mentor status.

                 

                and how long you can continue your mentor status? Is it awarded for a lifetime?

                 

                 

                Undoubtedly, mentors must be having some special skills. But, unlike moderators, mentors are not seen active in forums and hence most of them are not much familiar to members active only in forums (like me).

                • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                  Stephen Johannes
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  Actually good question, but I think you probably also need to read this article that might clarify why you don't see all of the SAP Mentors on the forums here:

                   

                  http://www.jonerp.com/content/view/421/1/

                   

                  That being said to translate "best of the best" comment it does not mean that every SAP Mentor is better than everyone else in their area, but in fact it just means if you were grading on a curve you would find most of the SAP Mentors in the top of the class in their respective area of knowledge or even several areas. You would also find several folks not SAP Mentors who might be even more awesome in that area, that are totally respected by and get major kudos by SAP Mentors.

                   

                  That being said yep I need to be a little more active in the forums, but life happens, but slowly I am easing into a routine.  However I must admit at least in my area the commnity has grown strong enough to have several people making waves, which I love.  I rather personally be one of the top 20 contributors in my area and have 19 strong contributors in front of me, than be the top contributor and have only two occasional contributors behind me.

                   

                  It is not always about yourself but rather how can you move/improve things foward.

                   

                  Take care,

                   

                  Stephen

                • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
                  Julius von dem Bussche
                  Currently Being Moderated

                  Hi Ravi,

                   

                  I share your sentiments.

                   

                  If a Mentor does not show some presence on SCN or even worse... makes public derogatory comments about SCN without contributing anything themselves (fluffy blogs dont count) then it does give the impression that the nomination process has a "brown nose"..

                   

                  Whether that is true or not, one cannot be sure. But I agree that the impression of glory-queens without tangible content for the community is something which active contributors find rather odd in the process.

                   

                  At least, I also find this problematic for me, as an active contributor.

                   

                  Cheers,

                  Julius

    • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
      Mark Finnern
      Currently Being Moderated

      Hi Zal,

       

      Sorry for not getting back to you earlier. Only now saw your questions regarding SAP Mentors.

       

      Bummer that when you looked the wiki was down, as that is where we keep our SAP Mentor FAQs:

      http://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/SAPMentors/SAPMentorInitiative+FAQs

       

      As I hope many of your questions are answered there.

      Please next time around nominate Gordon Du again. He has been nominated before, but others were choosen.

      He may get the nod next time around. Encourage others to endorse him too, that strengthens his position.

       

      Many factors go into the selection process, how many mentors do we have in a certain area already? We like to start out with more than just one, as a lone wolf just doesn't get the traction that is needed to push the needle.

       

      Region is also a big consideration. We would like to balance that a bit. They should be able to work with product management / development of SAP to influence development.

       

      For me one of the greatest proofs that you have the fire that makes you an SAP Mentor is, whether you have organized or helped organize an SAP Inside Track in your region.

       

      Why is that such a great measuring point? Because it takes effort, you have shown organizational talent, you were able to gather SAP folks into a room to geek out around SAP. You can only do that if they accept you as a local community leader. By having that event, you also tapped into what is going on in your area and can share that with SAP. You can also share what you found out in SAP Mentor webinars with your local group next time you meet. That is what we are looking for, the two way dialog that gets filtered and amplified in both directions.

       

      Hope that helps, Mark.

  • Re: How do you picture a Mentor?
    Otto Gold
    Currently Being Moderated

    Too old thread to be still relevant.

    Thanks everybody for opinions,

    cheers Otto

Actions