few of my friends got job in SAP SD, FICO module. the salary is really great. my question is comparing to other platforms ex JAVA, networking, programmer etc SAP ppl seems to make more money. is that cause
1. extensive travel involvement?
2 not enough supply in the market?
or something else?
i am confused.
No, it is much simpler than that. You are probably aware of the discrimination that is going on in the workplace, i.e. better-looking people get better salaries. All us SAP consultants are downright stunning. <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrithik_Roshan">Hrithik Roshan</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shilpa_Shetty">Shilpa Shetty</a> pale alongside us, and that is the simple explanation for the higher salaries.
It could also be because all universities churn out Java-programmers, but you won't (as far as I know) find a single ABAP-programmer or SAP functional consultant coming straight from the university. So as you indicate, it is probably an issue of supply and demand. SAP is doing well, so SAP consultants are in high demand, whether it be technical consultants or functional consultants. I haven't heard of any employers offering higher salaries due to extensive travelling. Usually it is not difficult to find people who won't mind seeing other parts the world (for a few years) at the expense of others.
To reduce the salary pressure some companies, IBM among others, set up their own education programmes. Time will show whether that will be a successful strategy or not.
As with any profession, if you are on top of your game, you will be rewarded. Alot of hard work and lots of hours go into thisw, and very few people start off with lots of money!
The common misconception is that if you work in SAP you will get lots of money! You have to work very ahrd for it, and it will not just fall in your lap. Many people have to work many years before they can command the salaries they get, otherwise, they go freelance, and the work is not always there.
Don;t get into SAP thinking you will make your fortune, it doesn;t work that way. Do it because you love it.
Let's not forget that you cannot compare apples with oranges:
When you are talking about Java you are talking about a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programmer">programmer</a> or a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_developer">software developer</a>.
This has nothing to do with SAP, it applies to any organisation. As Barry said, through hard work and becoming good at what you do can you move from bookeeper to accountant to financial business analyst; or from dispatch clerk to logistics consultant.
> [...] through hard work and
> becoming good at what you do can you move from
> bookeeper to accountant to financial business
> analyst; or from dispatch clerk to logistics
Not to mention; from Java developer to ABAP developer and ultimately to SAP Business Workflow developer - the best of the best of the best as they say in Men In Black
<i>For those who don't know: both Mike and I are familiar with the SAP Business Workflow environment.</i>
It's not that ABAP coding is more difficult than Java coding. I haven't done any Java development, but I would think the usual rule about difference between languages being mostly a syntax issue applies. However, there are some differences between your average Java programmer and your average ABAP developer it seems.
One difference was once described as "the Java programmers look for ways to break the system security, while the ABAP programmers look for ways to make the system safer". A bit of a hacker culture among many Java developers, that is.
ABAP developers usually quite quickly come across performance issues. It is not related to the programming language, it is related to the environment we work in - large enterprise systems where database size growth sometimes is counted in tens of gigabytes per month.
The SAP systems are also huge and complex in a different manner. If you are developing a solution one should (well, at least I agree with this) try to find existing function modules, data elements etc that can be used. This can take a large percentage of your time when you work in SAP. An experienced SAP developer should know her/his way around the system, and thus can be much more productive than a beginner.
Experience always makes you worth more (makes you more effective). I suppose the potential is not exhausted as quickly in SAP as in other development environments, but I don't really see why a fresh developer should make more money developing in ABAP than in Java.
IMHO, we as ABAP Developers earn more money simply because large companies use SAP...In a big company you got the most critical processes and environments, so you need to pay a lot to got the best developers and get the best applications running -:)
Five years ago, when I was a SAP freshman...I earn X dollars...Now, being a Senior Developer I earn 9X dollars...Comparing to some of my friends that works either on Java, Oracle or Power Builder...
ABAP is not that hard to learn...But being good is hard...You have to learn some of the basics of every SAP module...learn tons of table names, FM's, BAPI's and so on...
Of course...at least in Perú...a new army of ABAP developers are being released to the market every 6 months or less...But being junior developers they got that much...When the become Senior...You can become an Architech and earn even more -:)
Also, it can depend on the way you sell yourself...Here on Perú, I'm very well known and beign a Freelance Consultant gives me the opportunity to not only work on a lot of companies but also on a lot of Consultant companies, so that's why I'm able to reject some offers, and ask more money for certain projects...
It depends of course on the Market, the country, the company and some other factors...Still, be earn big money, which makes happy enough to not question my paycheck -;)
It is knowing that SAP environment that causes the uplift in fees that can be commanded. I know most major modules to some extent, but where I add value, is that I know how SAP generally "works" - so that when a question comes up in GRC, (to take a recent exampe), in which I've no experience, I'm able to figure out what's going on. Which is why when my clients have some new technology or SAP aspect to deal with, they often place it on my desk with a note to "figure it out".
But mainly I think it's because I'm so good-looking.
> hello friends,
> few of my friends got job in SAP SD, FICO module. the
> salary is really great. my question is comparing to
> other platforms ex JAVA, networking, programmer etc
> SAP ppl seems to make more money. is that cause
> 1. extensive travel involvement?
> 2 not enough supply in the market?
> or something else?
> i am confused.
It's because SAP stands for Salary Advance Program !
> It's because SAP stands for Salary Advance Program !
That's a new one! I used to collect these abbreviations, but I can't find my list now, so I just remember a few;
Stop All Production (offshore (oil) workers)
Submit And Pray (programmers)
Suffering And Pain (don't know)
Suffer And Pay (don't know, but probably someone who paid the license fees
It is very interesting question and observation.
Yes SAP Consultants are paid relatively more compare to other IT Jobs most of the times.
There are few factors contributing to higher pay checks.
1. Functional consultants don't evolve out of college , they have lot of doman expertise like Finance, Manufacturing, Sales and Distribution , Logistics etc., so before they learn the respective modules they are usually knowledgeble and have some experience but wanted to tune them better. Experience + SAP training + SAP experience ( more experience more work and smart move = more money)
2. SAP Projects are usually short term in nature so people are expected to move alot from one place to other. so always makes you stand on toes for understanding new businesses, new people , work culture and adapt it as quickly as possible and deliver.
For eg : Super smart Surgeon charges huge money for the surgery of 1 Hour vs a Medical practictioner from the hospital from the same 1 Hour though both are Doctors because better skill and perform in short period of time.
So Short term + Travel + Additional Stress of Delivery + Variety Skill = Additional money.
3. There may be between the assignment times where you don't get project closest to your base location , at certain points of time at times demand and Supply also contributes more SAP Fico consultants available in NY-NJ-CT-PA areas automatically chances become weak and rates can't be higher.
So need to cover slack time into consideration and also demand supply factors.
4. Ofcourse last one I can think of.. is a Brand You carry with you. SAP implementations are usually for large companies with bigger pockets . Like you have BMW SUV and Hyundai SUV both can function and looks wize similarities but people have choices to make.
So SAP is a big brand and it carries big numbers.
Good Luck if you want to get into SAP Space but Please remember for every effort there is Price and If things were so easy to get more money in SAP , half of the IT people would be in SAP only.. So... I'm Sure there are some other reasons as well, which I couldn't recall at this point.
What is good and Great are just relative terms, but in general it plays around Demand and Supply. If you are in niche areas unless you have other parameters like location preferences etc., usually numbers will be very intersting.
I wish you get your great salary soon.
Ok, I want to be more specific:
At the age of 25 I was inhouse team member. At the age of 26 I was SAP CRM consultant. The salary increas was significant. I think I got my peak salary between the age of 27-29 but with low increases from 27 to 28 or 29 but I think you could consider it great for that age.
With 31 I went to freelancing. Another significant increase in income. You could call it great for the working hours put in.
With the age 35 I went back to permanent employment at a smaller company and I am still earning less than with the age of 26-29 or even 31-35 with also limited increases which is a little bit frustrating.
Therefore my comment: at the moment I regard my salary as good but not great as the company is small, SAP CRM is no longer that hot and maybe the market is under pressure because of nearshore and offshore.
Maybe I will change my situation in the future, let's see. As an overall judgement I would say SAP consultancy is not a bad area, especially for technical and non-management roles (I think managers get more in all indistries).
In some areas engineers - which would have been an alternative career for me - in Germany (the home of engineers) complain about not so good working conditions and salaries and we are still better than them, I guess. I have also met a number of pysicists and other scientists - some with doctorate - which were also happy to be able to work in the field of SAP (again another possible career for me). In journalism and humanities like political science or chinese studies - which I also considered - income might be less but eventually the work sometimes more interesting (not so much boring ABAP code).
So except compared with doctors and investment bankers we should be pretty fine.
I have 7 years experience in environmental field. I'm thinking of moving into SAP. Presently getting trained in SAP SD since there are very less positions in SAP EHS. Do you think SAP EHS is a good field to get into or SAP SD is better in terms of opportunities. I'm equally interested in both. You advice will be greatly appreciated.
I agree that SAP EHS has relatively lesser market at this point but if you closely observe entire world is crying loud about Environmental issues, so regulations will become more n more strongers so the need for compliances and all tools for it..
My vision on EHS is, it will be very good area in long run.
Good luck with your choice.
Complaining about pay is certainly more coffee corner material.
Asking for good advice here is a different topic (however I did solve my mongoose problem here..!) and carries some unmoderated risks with it.
btw: quality of life and being happy also counts, so if you want to meet nice girls then don't choose basis or security!
well said, Anything routine and long time tends to get bored either SAP or Marriage, need to see what can be changed or spice up or what you can loosen little or more. What you can over look
or what you know can't change over years and live with that..
Option of go away is there.. but what is the guarantee is next one is any better.. , even next option gets bored in sometime
If we see bigger picture on these things .. and try to ignore lot of smaller things.., we can be lot more happier and have lesser complaints.
Well, I've known my #workhusband much longer, and he sees much more of me, and he also helps with technical stuff (whether it's an upgrade, or a TV, or buying a computer). I don't have to cook for him or anything else. So yeah, I guess that's different! . But then again, I've never met Julius IRL.
That is totally enough (asking me about workflow).
AND he doesn't have to buy me birthday presents either.
He does NOT actually 'work' on those dreaded household maintenance things - he gets to advise me - and if you show me a man who does not like that, then I'll fall over in a faint.
Gregory Misiorek wrote:
i thought pay but not necessarily career was discussed here. coffee corner is where those discussion, esp complaining take place, don't they?
Yes, the pay was the original discussion, but I was replying to ravi's post that was not even on the same subject and along the lines of what's usually posted in "other CC".
Well, anyway, glad it got Julius a chance to get some thoughts out.
You are not confused, whatever you guessing all are contributing to certain extent to get better paid in SAP.
All SAP Module consulants don't get paid same, more because of Demand and Supply not about how difficult or simple.
Shorter duration more bucks as you need to cover other aspects like more frequent travels, stays etc and all Idle time also taken to consideration between assignments.
If you are in Niche areas and Your client has bigger pockets then that is the best combination to demand more salary.
Projects of longer durations in the areas of BASIS, Portals are usually lesser billed because of the duration.
I have been closely working with Consulting industry for the past 16 years at various roles, have fair idea for sure.
"if you have a SAP job and it doesn't pay enough to get you through the month"
It doesn't mean SAP jobs hasn't much value. It does mean your organization doesn't want to give value for SAP jobs.
Its depend on organization. You wont believe my organization is treating us (SAP team) as a computer data operator. Now think what will be the package structure of a computer data operator.
So here, its a problem of my organization, I will never say that I get peanuts from SAP jobs.
There are some changes in the past 7-10 years again it is all about demand and supply. Try some niche areas like OpenText integration with SAP just as example... I know few guys are offered too heavy numbers even now.
If you want to make more money, need to be lil more creative in what you are doing and make plans to change within your of SAP or away.
Btw Peanuts are really healthy as long as you are not allergic to it
Good luck with making more money.. keep eyes open on emerging technologies.. it helps to make more for sure.
now seriously...I agree with you, is the good and the bad side of the offer demand model, keep your knowledge in a heavily closed chest and hope it will solve your working life is a huge mistake you need to move forward, specialize (or keep specializing) on an area or bet into new areas, IMHO days of gold where only have the word SAP in your CV means you will get paid a lot had over, and I'm quite happy about that.
Thank you Chakra Adari,
My organization does not provide good salary packages because my company is getting people who can work for free.
See my point is nowadays; n number of people do SAP courses with the mind set that they will get good job and handsome salary. But the moment their course finishes they realize that to get into SAP is like getting break in a Hollywood.
Nowadays demand is less and supply is more.
On the there side, I cannot ignore the fact that there are many people who get a very handsome figure. Reason is their experience. Once your experience increases your value increases.
I am in the initial phase of my career that is why I am working for peanuts. And I accept that peanuts are good for health but yes I am allergic of peanuts .
This is also often caused by over-investment. Company ends up with too many people and overhead costs, so must go for bigger projects at lower rates with as many people as possible standing around and bothering each other.
This buck is then passed on to the employees, half of which don't actually need any real skills so your salary rate is competitive with dubawalahs and rickshaw drivers.
The only way to combat that is having a few medium term contracts to cover risk and then specializing and refusing to work for "price dumping" rates, and when asked to fix a mess created by price-dumpers then it costs double.
In a way , I mentioned same in my first response. I really wish you get Cashew nuts and more. World is very competitive and SAP World is no exception.
I have been into consulting for over 15 years, at times consultants in some other modules and lesser experienced gets paid more than me, it is all just matter of demand, how smart you negotiate the numbers etc.,
As you have mentioned you at initial stages, so keep yourself toned well , just remember even you get 10 times more than what you are getting , still there will be some dissatisfaction so.. take a chill pill
and keep watching what can get you better and hit it harder.. I'm sure you can make it.
When I got my first SAP consulting job, about sixteen years ago, my new employer asked me in the interviews what salary I wanted. I had no idea what to ask for, and I didn't want to seem greedy, so I asked for the same salary I had been making at my immediate prior job as a network administrator (and newly minted Basis administrator). Really, I would have been happy to make a lateral move at the time. Imagine my surprise and joy when the offer of employment came in for about $10K more than I had asked for! They knew I had asked for too little, and they knew I would soon figure that out, so they didn't screw me over.
Time went on, and I was very happy. Then one day, while attending meetings at a branch office in San Francisco, I was having breakfast in the hotel with other consultants from the same company, all gathered from across the country for these meetings. Over breakfast, one of the others was griping about how little money he made, how unhappy he was, how the company was screwing us all over, and I kept quiet, because I really felt I was getting a good deal and I was enjoying my work. Then this fellow let slip "I mean, I know we're all making six figures here, but..." I hoped my shock didn't show too much. I was making a lot less than "six figures." So this guy was making more money than I could even imagine, significantly more than I was, and he was griping about how underpaid he was.
Suddenly, I no longer felt like I had such a good deal, and then I realized how insidious these things can become.
Not too long after this incident, I had my first annual review over beers at the Denver airport, between connecting flights. My boss pushed across a scrap of paper (it might have been a table napkin, I'm not sure now) with a handwritten number on it and asked me if I was good with it. It was a dollar figure, still not six figures, but a huge increase over what I had been making that first year, much more than a "standard" raise. I said "Thank you, yes, I'm very happy," and I meant it, and that was the extent of my review. And it was true. I really enjoyed my time with that company, for as long as it lasted, and I did feel that I got a fair shake from them. I had just missed the wave of huge amounts of money for SAP consultants, but that was a matter of timing, and not long after that the whole high-tech sector imploded and I landed making less money again. I've had raises since, but I've never again seen raises in the double-digit percentage points like I did through the late 90s. I also know that of all the consultants we've hired in the intervening years (I am no longer a consultant, I'm a customer now), none of them have had a billing rate as high as mine had been before that, and yet still my current employer has at times grumbled about how expensive they are. If they only knew.
Thanks for sharing your story. Again it is all about demand, supply, knowing about what is going on around and how good you can fairly negotiate .
I remember few consultants who were making huge numbers and at times VP Level from Client used to interact with them very closely. Those Consultant model was real charm for SAP folks.
Now they are lot of supply and clients have become much smarter and have better awareness of how to fish around for much lower prices so they started slash down numbers significantly.
At one point of time I have suggested one person who was doing ColdFusion, to take up SAP Basis got trained and he is really making lot bigger bugs now than otherwise he would be some QA or Some Java progrommer.
Anyways at times we should be lucky to be at Right Place, Right Time doing Right Thing. I feel I missed some great opportunities as well but what to do we all make mistakes ..