if "experts" are wrong... then your behavior?

[Paulo_Vitoriano]

I have seen so many times some replies from high-ranked functional forum contributors that are complete non-sense or just wrong and misleading.

I am very much trying to ignore them and give my own answer without calling names or commenting on others replies, even though sometime it is a big temptation to argue.

First, I am not sure what is the SCN policy on that, probably it is exactly as I do - simply to ignore any other answers from other people except from the discussion owner.

On the other hand imagine a person taking from SCN a misleading advise that can imply wasted time and money...

Interesting to hear other opinions!

[marilyn_pratt · Accepted solution]

Following this conversation with much interest and thank you Paulo for triggering it.

While some of this dialogue has occurred in other threads and discussions, there are a number of insights that are unique (or at least IMHO).

Here’s a summary of what I have heard here or understood.

1. Being a witness or bystander while faulty advice is given causes frustration.  It can be harmful not only to the person implementing the mistake, but can distract and annoy others listening.
2. Jumping into a discussion without having followed all previous responses can create often creates noise and more frustration, distraction and annoyance
3. Reputation and expertise are nuanced.  They are not only gauged by leaderboards and rankings, but are based on trust and personal evaluations.
4. Everyone, even a trusted expert, can occasionally err or give misguided answers. (it’s called being human, no?)

And some insights from the advice offered here:

1. Be a good community participant.  When you believe something is misguided, raise the flag publically and courteously in the thread
2. Read through all replies in a discussion before participating, it alleviates the noise and helps reduce confusion and redundancy
3. Trust and evaluating expertise are labor intensive activities.  It sometimes often takes time to sort and understand who is really an expert and knows their stuff
4. Reverse mentoring or guiding is an equal teaching/learning opportunity for newbies, mentors, experts, fossils (?) alike.   Being defensive or dismissive of such educating immediately calls to question the level of trust and even expertise.

Also raised here was a reference to what is called the "ad hominem" .  Respond to the arguments while refraining from attacking the person.

[Paulo_Vitoriano · Accepted solution]

Great summary, Marilyn! 

I can only add a small observation (my 2 cents) that not everyone, even trying hard to be a good member, have enough time (talking just about time!) to follow all these informal rules end to end and always.  Moreover, that is physically impossible.

If anyone feels there is a value to give own opinion on a functional question it is still better to do it, even without engaging into a feedback for other members' opinions.

Can give another curious example, some people when asking a question already know what kind of answer they want to hear.  And regardless the fact it will not work in the real world, they would be happy to get that wrong reply and ignore any other arguments.  In that case I (for example) will not insist any second time. 

[marilyn_pratt · Accepted solution]

Excellent points and I can only shake my head in agreement. Sometimes language is a bit of a barrier to reading all the comments, but certainly there is no requirement to answer everyone.

Particularly learned from this comment of yours:

some people when asking a question already know what kind of answer they want to hear.  And regardless the fact it will not work in the real world, they would be happy to get that wrong reply and ignore any other arguments.  In that case I (for example) will not insist any second time. 

[Colleen · Accepted solution]

Thanks Marilyn - I couldn't remember the term "ad hominem" ' but it's a valuable approach to any interaction that may involve conflict and disagreement.

[Jelena]

Just like MoazzaM I very rarely (if ever) see the true SCN experts (those without the quotation marks) give a completely wrong advice. Certainly anyone can make a mistake (happened to me more than a few times!) and such mistakes should be respectfully corrected.

Usually it's more of an issue with beginners (or "experts") confidently dispensing advice that range from "not the best practice" to "complete nonsense". Something that can be truly harmful ("it's easy, just use SE16N to update BSEG!") I report it to the moderators because it must be removed. In other cases I try to be as polite as possible (which is a great challenge sometimes! ) when pointing out incorrect answers.

When in doubt or no time for a polite response I believe alerting moderator is a better option than simply ignoring. Actually a couple of times I was incorrect myself about the reported answers, so that was quite helpful to have a moderator to, uhm, moderate.

[Paulo_Vitoriano]

I believe SE16N is normally closed with an OSS note... I had an idea of posting something with /h and changing variables, but hmmm, no way now!

[former_member182378]

Paulo,

Please confirm, now it is no longer possible to update information at table level?

TW

[Paulo_Vitoriano]

It is possible with other tools, but the use of SE16N was restricted long time ago...

[nitin_jinagal]

It won't bother me that much. And trust me, I really won't bother if someone's posting incorrect/ inappropriate response.

If I know the correct answer, I'll just go and post it. In case I have second thoughts, I'll check, test and verify it and then, again go with the correct content.

Yeah, I just found couple of suggestions which are (or might be) not valid to the original query!! They might be totally absurd, or applicable but in some other manner. That's what (I believe) a true consultant must know. How to ! Where to ! When to ! Whom to !

When you talk to your client, you don't reach out to the solution at one go. There are always Q&A sessions. Moreover, this is a global platform and not everyone is expert in expressing via writing in English. There are always constraints. Sometimes,

• You don't understand it (not intentionally but taken otherwise) and give your suggestions.
• You are not aware about the latest functionality (haven't worked on a specific area for years).
• OP expecting step-by-step procedure and user responding not in desired manner but just helping out so that OP can get the idea and do the remaining part itself.

IMHO, there could be many more reasons behind and I don't believe that anyone who's spent a significant time on SCN would do (intentionally) what you have said.

Besides, there is nothing wrong in being wrong. If this was believed years ago, Thomas Edison wouldn't had invented the bulb !

[former_member182378]

Paulo,

What is "high-ranked"? (points or badges or....)

In life, when we ask for suggestions, advise; we get both "relevant" and "irrelevant" / "right" and "wrong" input. So why would SCN be any different?

Further, (in some cases) "right" and "wrong" are labelled by the subjective judgement of the OP...that is not always accurate!

For me, a thread (or blog or anything in SCN) is not a dialogue between the contributor and the OP, it is a "society" discussing something...so when you correct or challenge someone, many might get benefited by the content and by that way of thinking - content is king or solutions are all-important.

Like members have commented, look at that particular post and not at the badge or points, in order to identify the level of a member (and yes, levels might change...your judgement of level might change)

TW

[Former Member]

Experts are generally measured by their correct answers/ideas and a way of their reply. If they are not able to give correct answer then find answer from other source and reply them with correct one. Use bidirectional approach of learning.

[former_member186746]

Hi,

I've seen a couple of times when an "incorrect" answer is given because the question is nonsensical or can be interpreted in too many ways.

I doubt that any of the fossils frequenting SCN will deliberately give false answers with the intent to harm businesses.

This is also a forum for an by professionals so you should expect some basis knowledge on the subjects that you are trying to get answers from. Even SAP notes sometimes have misstakes in their correction instructions.

Cheers, Rob.

[Colleen]

I suspects the "experts" referred to here are not the "fossils"

The challenge with SCN is reputation and identity. How do you know the person providing advise is a trusted "expert". This includes

• Are they really who they claim to be? Some people use fake names but they have built their reputation up over time and become trusted.
• Have they maintained their profile which links to actual identify and they have an industry reputation that you can trust?
• Have they been defined an expert as they have a diamond/emerald/topaz/whatever in their status (who's to say they didn't get the bulk of their lifetime points by responding to coffee corner before points were switched off)?
• Have they been defined as an expert based on rankings in their space (have they chased low hanging fruit or produced quality contributions and do they members in that space have a discipline for marking correct answers and helpful answers or liking and rating blogs and documents to impact the rankings)?
• On the flipside to the point chaser, you also have those with expertise who only post when they feel they can truly improve a solution. These might be the "fossils" that you refer to but how do you measure their reputation if you don't know who they are.

In short - expert is difficult to measure in this forum. You need a way to determine if they are an expert based on your own criteria and this is a challenge if you are new to SCN or an infrequent participant. Hang around the community long enough and you can separate the "experts" from the experts.

The "fossils" and quiet participants are the ones I'm trying to discover and learn from amongst the noise. When the speak (well write), I want to read their opinions and take note.

[Paulo_Vitoriano]

Agree.  Most "fossils" would not bother answering functional questions, they are super-puper topaz-diamonds consentrating and mentoring from the coffee-corner and not into the points game.  They can talk on behalf of SAP and enjoy themself.

"Experts" are not usually experts, but rather active forum members within top 10.

[moazzam_ali]

Hi

I have not seen senior members doing this. I remember only one example where a senior member gave wrong suggestion and it happened two times from same member and deleted his post afterwards. Otherwise it happens always with new members who try to answer without testing or they are just playing for the sake of points.

Best approach is what other senior member said to correct them in a positive sense and show the right direction to OP. If some member repeatedly does this then there is Alert moderator functionality.

Thank$

[Former Member]

I too had faced such concerns earlier. I feel, It might not be the exact solution as the question could not be clear, but mostly it could lead to a path which might help in further analysis. If you go wrong, it could also be a learning experience.

But it again depends on how critical the problem was, if it was highly critical, better not to take chances unless sure about it.

Regards

Basheer

[former_member183424]

There are no policy in SCN that prevent to post your opinion if someone post a wrong answer.

It will be not an argue if you correct any wrong statement. Why you will ignore this ? At the time participating to a discussion, you should read all other replies also. From other reply you can learn something new.

If someone post a wrong answer, then just show him that he is on wrong track.

[Lakshmipathi]

As you rightly said, no need to mention the name who gave wrong suggestion, but you can very well highlight in a right sense that whatever suggestions given already are incorrect and also, if possible, give justification to that by explaining what would be the SAP impact by following that wrong suggestions.

In fact, for any issues, there would be multiple ways to achieve the requirement and as a consultant, we need to give the Best Practice approach.  So in that sense, I do came across various suggestions given by members which are cumbersome and not the right direction to the issue.  So I would advice the OP to go with a suggestion that may suit according to the Business requirement.

G. Lakshmipathi

[Former Member]

I agree with Paulo, sometime its bit difficult to get the correct answer for the question. While replying some member don't even go through the thread or other response before replying.  As mentioned by Jurgen it may be lack of knowledge or without having own experience. If this is the case then they should not reply to the thread.

I would suggest to implement the dislike option.

[Paulo_Vitoriano]

The idea of dislike option is interesting and it fully fits into gamification concept !  1 dislike = -1 point !

It is almost impossible to read all the answers and engage into a dialog with 5-6 different people at the same time.  That can drive discussion completely out of the initial subject matter.  Neither you want SCN to become your second full-time job.

[Steffi_Warnecke]

It is almost impossible to read all the answers and engage into a dialog with 5-6 different people at the same time.  That can drive discussion completely out of the initial
subject matter.  Neither you want SCN to become your second full-time job.

Why is it impossible to read all replies? So if you answer in a discussion, you don't read what was written before you? Just to know if somebody already gave the same answer you're about to type, it is important to read every single reply that came before yours to get a feel for where the discussion is now.

A lot of noise here is created because people just read the first post (of the OP) and then jump in to answer, not knowing that the answer was already given or that is was established, that the OP meant something different than what he wrote about in the inital post.

The dislike option was already brought up some time ago, there existed even an idea in the Idea Place for this, but SAP won't go this path.

Also: since you don't get points for likes on your answers anymore, I think there is no need for a kind of punishment where you lose points for dislikes. And just disliking something takes away the responsibility to explain, what exactly you don't like. There shouldn't be punishment without the obligation to write the reason for it.

[Paulo_Vitoriano]

There is a big difference between reading all replies and provide your input AND provide your input and making comments on those posts that you consider less appropriate.  It is a huge difference in terms of time and effort.

And other replies are not necessarily wrong, but maybe suggesting to go into ABAP while the requirement can be covered by the standard system through customizing for example.

[Paulo_Vitoriano]

Dislike is not a punishment, it is exactly the same kind of opinion as the Like is, just different.  No need to deduct any points.  But I'd rather disagree on the argument about taking away the responsibility to explain the Dislike, since there is no responsibility here to explain Likes either.  So, it is just a symmetric situation while you can expect a responsible use of this option in such a respected community.

The dislike option was already brought up some time ago, there existed even an idea in the Idea Place for this, but SAP won't go this path.
Also: since you don't get points for likes on your answers anymore, I think there is no need for a kind of punishment where you lose points for dislikes. And just disliking something takes away the responsibility to explain, what exactly you don't like. There shouldn't be punishment without the obligation to write the reason for it.

[JL23]

Anybody can be wrong with an answer, maybe he/she is just not up-to-date with new functions in higher releases, or just sells what he was told by someone else.

(unfortunately there are even people who are just searching for similar discussions and post the answers from those discussions without even having some own experience on the issue)

The discussions are open, anybody can step in and can explain that there is a different solution.

I personally appreciate anyone who corrects a wrong statement, even it was one of mine. This helps others to find a correct solution and I learn new things too.

[Steffi_Warnecke]

First, I am not sure what is the SCN policy on that, probably it is exactly as I do - simply to ignore any other answers from other people except from the discussion owner.

Hmm, that's not my way of doing it. Discussing with others to get to a solution is not limited to discussing with the OP. If you see, that somebody gives a wrong answer (maybe s/he just missunderstood the question or something like that), IMO it is important to point that out. Because others who find that discussion won't just read the "talk" between you and the OP, but every post. At least they should.

As important it is to highlight helpful and correct answers, in my opinion it's equaly important for everyone using SCN to point out, if something is plain wrong. Because some people just don't know that it is.

Of course, if content is against the SCN rules, there is that nifty "Alert moderator" button JK wrote about.

[Colleen]

+++++ to this

It is important to step in and provide correct advise if you see incorrect advise given. However, there is a diplomatic way to do this where you argue the point and not the person

Those who are guilty of chasing points will unfortunately appear with a "high rank" that provides a false impression.

At the same time, some people who do ask for assistance are completely loss and are not in a position to validate if the proposed solution is appropriate for them. This too is an issue (outside of the control of the community) but the person taking advise is ultimately responsible for consequences to their system. And it can be very frustrating when they take the first answer that comes along when it's not necessarily a sustainable (or even appropriate in the first place) solution.

[Jitendra_Kansal]

Hi Paulo,

We all are expected to follow

If you notice such behaviors as you mentioned above, you should reach out to Moderators to take actions. (Click on "Alert Moderator"). You may take it offline as well with sapnetwork@sap.com with detailed explanation.

Regards,

JK