Expert rules for substance with out CAS or UN

[former_member191252]

Hi All,

We do have some products in for which we do not have any sort of identifier (neither CAS or UN) and that substance is printed on MSDS as CAS# not available, but under component we mention its name and under percentage we will provide XY%.

My concern is, how expert rule can work on this scenarios ? do I need to write my own rule ? we do have these types of substance around 10-15. How Expert rule calculate the Standard composition by ECBP ?

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[christoph_bergemann · Accepted solution]

Dear Tarun

you are asking the "wrong" question. Question is:

1.) is the component produced by your own?

2:) is it part of a product which you receive from a supplier?

3.) which rule set do  you would like to use?

It is very common (e.g. in US) that you will find on MSDS terms like: "Registered component" with some name but without CAS Number.(this is waht is called "Trade Secret" sometimes).

In terms of SAP EHS: as long as you know the chemistry of the "unknown" you are fine. In this case you would prepare REAL_SUB, use the "unknown" as part of composition and then use "Rule Sets". But if you have no "clue" about chemisty involved no rule set and no human being can help.

Example: the component need to show up in either chapter 2 or 3 (and sometime 8). The component is used e.g. to "calculate" labeling of the REAL_SUB (as well as classification): if you do not have the data to do so neither a rulke set nor a human being can help.

As long as you don not specify which rulke set you would like to run and which data you have on comonent without CAS number nobody can help you

C.B.

PS: it is not always alloed you print in chapter 2 o 3 components without CAS number;  This depends on regulation/country etc. BUt if you have nbo CAS number you can not assign e.g. "EG" number of other numbers; But you need to check regulaiton by regulation (e.g. US, CA, REACH area etc. 9)

[former_member212503 · Accepted solution]

Chris ,

Let's say you need to download content from OCC which requirers CAS or UN number , Now if you do not know cas or un number , how can you download information ?

[christoph_bergemann · Accepted solution]

Dear Krishna

simple. without CAS or UN number you can not download. BUt there are many cases there you do not have the CAS number or UN number but only some "names" (or other kind of information): This is now the job of the "Expert" (in most cases a chemist etc.).

BUt there are many many many cases there you will not get any "helpful" information to look for CAS numbers. This is especially the case in SDS/MSDS. E.g. in US you can simply say:

Trade Secret xy (this is one component) and that's it. You will not get any kind of "on top" information. Only by "digging" very deep /and this must be done by the "super chemist/regulaiton etc. expert) you might get more. BUt in most cases: not an easy job; and sometimes you will get even nothing and need to handle the sitaation as such

This is more or less similar as discussed in different thread. You will get content as "density" etc. only with "special services"  from content provider; In most cases you get onyl "legal" data

C.B:

PS: Example of MSDS/SDS to be found in internet having "trade secret" data; https://research.amnh.org/molecular/msds_folder/rna_later.pdf

if you do research will clearly find more of these examples

[Ralph_P]

Hi Tarun,

The expert rules don't care about a CAS number. Depending on the rule, for exmple the GHS Classification of that component will be checked and used to calculate the classification of the product. Whether or not the component has a CAS number doesn't matter. If the component is some sort of dangerous good and does not have a UN number, the DG rule sert may not work properly but that is the only one I can think of.

Ralph