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Back to the roots? when and how do you rebuild a system after being over programmed and NOTHING is standard anymore and well NOTHING.

Former Member
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I got a question, how many here use EHS and RM for everything in their Company- WITHOUT any Z Transactions or Tables. meaning not to the extent of 1000 plus Extra Ztransactions or ZTabels.

HELP- How do I begin to start from Sratch build an EHS and RM System.  I refuse to work with what is now built up. Nothing Standard and nothing as to how I learned the System.  Anyone have suggestions?

or Suggestion to whom I can call to get help from outside- well i am new and not from this Company, and just really wonder "Where the Heck did I land", " we arent in EHS World anymore".   BE a good Chance to build something up, but I just dont know where to start.

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Answers (3)

christoph_bergemann
Active Contributor
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Dear AnnChristine

only some minor add on:

assuming your company is using SAP ERP (and EHS as well as RM) because of whatsover demand in the past number of Z Transactions and Z tables have been generated.

The "issue" with a "rebuild/redesign" is now: the decision what is the future optimal scenario for your company?

Some potential options:

1.) SAP is providing a lot of services (Cloud solutions). One option would be to determine: what is "our" core need as a company to get in EHS and RM upand running (together with the othe rcore processes which normally are needed)? Can SAP deliver this (that means the core processes) as a "Cloud" solution? Then one potential option would be to use this approach "only" to move the relevant master data piece to the new cloud solution (with help of SAP clearly)

2.) Assuming that your are using "only" SAP ERP (and no SAP BW, SAP GTS, SAP TM etc. etc.) next option would be to create a new SAP ERP system; check what SAP standard provides; do a "mapping" (old data new data) and move any ! process (and master data)  to the new system using as much as possible standard transactions (or use the many option of cutomer exits, other exits, BAdis etc.) and get rid (if possible) of the many Z solutions.

But in my opinion may be the best approach might be first to generate the list of "core" processes which must be in place in SAP ERP; then to analyze in which scenario a "Z" process is used and then to look for options to go back to standard: simply speaking. a step by step approach may be starting with "simpler" topics and then analyze "bigger" topic might be better then trying to find a solution in "one run".

If you take a look in this FORUM you will find lot of thread dealing with

- own Z Classes

- own processes for SDS distribution

- any many other topics (which are outside of SAP standard; sometimes you can use SAP standard; sometimes not))

So on high level: many customers are not "100%" satisified (by whatsoever reason) with the SAP standard as such; and there is always "one" need to use Z tables etc.; and by many reasons this "one" need is getting more and more "worse" over the time and therefore at the end you have a lot of "Z Transactions" etc. in place

So one of the many options might be to ask for help (e.g. at SAP side) to get a picture from "outside" of the company on the current SAP architecture to get a kind of "indication" what might be the best approach;

So my suggestions are a kind of combination in relation with Mary's suggestions and that of Mr EHSM

C.B.

Former Member
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Hallo Christoph,

ok I got the ok to get in some external help to look into the system with me and so on.  Now you have any contacts up here in North Germany?

Thanks

Anna

christoph_bergemann
Active Contributor
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Dear AnnChristine

because of the rules of SCN I can not share company names which might help you. But if you just google there are many consutling companies acting in germany and some of them claim to have experience in EHS/EHSM, on top some of them claim to have experience in RD/RM.

Based on some assumptions (and google research): your company seems to act in a "special" kind of chemical industry. In this area it is "known" that Z Transaction etc. might come up. For some  different kind of industry SAP has provided some documents using SAP Hana approach; e.g. refer to ; may be check as well:

and:

Here you can see that other companies use as well "own developed SAP based solutions". In this case the customer seems to be quite satisfied with the solution.

In my opinion the best approach to start a project is:

1.) check with SAP your status for "licenses" first. ! and clarify if there might be the need to extend license situation

2.) Check your SAP release and the potential need to do upgrade/update

3.) as mentioned: some kind of "internal" preproject might help to get better support from external companies, This preproject should include: a.) list of Z Transaction, b.) frequencey of use of Z Transaction; c.) some "business" reasons (if available) why the Z Transaction comes in place (and may be how long it is used), d.) number of users per Z Transactions (related as well to topic d.); e.) if possible generate a kind of "process" mapping by your own (e.g. Z Transaction X can be "mapped" to CG02 etc.);  f.) it is important to list the "core" processes which must work in step 1) and which could be extended step by step to reduce complexity of the project

As mentioned: even if you have generated whatsover kind of blueprint how to go on in your situation you should consider topics as:

a:) user training (now they use Z Transactions; in the future they will hopefully use SAP standard transactions)

b.) data migration (old to new data structures)

c.) access right topics  (now you use Z Transactions; what is the new situation?)

Be aware of the fact that depending on the "difference" between your system set up and potential SAP standard solution in many cases a 2 to 3 year project might be needed. But this depends on the "high level" demand which can only be specified by you. It can be assumed what you will need: SAP SD, MM, PP, FI, CO and other SAP core modules. And if in EHS and RM area you use "Z Transactions" it is "quite" common that this is the same for SAP MM (therefore only in some cases may be your company used SAP standard options to solve the demand)

It is not any easy task to get rid of all "Z Transaction etc". in one run. On the top SAP delivers a lot of topics "out of the box"; before you can use them you need to check: are they still in the system (/e.g. STANDARD property tree only as one of the many topics)or is there the need first to install them in the system and can this be done by your own ressources?

C.B.

PS: may be check:

Former Member
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Hello CB,

ok, I am now doing an IST-Analyse and well  are set up in MM are are not 1:1 picture in CG02.  I know some ZTransaction are useful, Mass changes or what so.. And just so many things Illogically set up. I know BACK THEN, decades ago, much wasn't offered or so for that area, but if you stop in right after implementation, to not develope and grow with the system, and not have interest, how can one the support such a system. If one cant get a long with a system or program and etc. the what do you expect to come out at the end. I'm sorry but illiterates, if you are in IT or Applications Support it is part of job to go with the flow.  But sadly many want to be the king of their area and then Get Blind.  That is how it is at times.  Its the tickle to look above the horizont.But anywayssssss

So I am going to pull out all substances in the system, then going to first Translate all into English- then build CG02 and the Properties more Logically.  Then Rebuild flow / Process charts of each step, if that aint clarified how can you reproduce a good system.  Then once the fundamentals and groundation are redefined; work from there.  I am looking into the WEBUI and finding it has the needs needed.

1. Listed all Ztables and Ztransactions- asked everyone to add info to what is is to do and well brief discriptions.   No documentations or hardly any done.

2. Jotting down Processes to EHS / RM area.  and going to everyone to see how they work.

3. Going to build a Test system with IDES or so, and show how it can be done.

5. need to get the CURRENT system a mirror image to our Quality and  Dev system.  SO much has been done in the Live system and not...   Quick and dirty was the motto here

6.now the Wicked witch is in the house. hehe..

Have  a lot of fissel work, but a better Use for the Users.  and if it takes time I want to do it right then.

ok Thanks CB

Thanks

Anna

christoph_bergemann
Active Contributor
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Dear Anna

it seems to be that it will be "hard" work for you and the team. In any case: the list of actions you describe will help to prepare a better system. The may be "best" in your situation might be: do not accept any additional "Z transaction" any more. Quite interesting to get some kind of feedback that there seems to be some companies out there which "fix" errors in "live" system or may be use live system as a "development" system not taking care of "dev" and "quality" system

Only some kind of add on "hint":

"So I am going to pull out all substances in the system, then going to first Translate all into English- then build CG02 and the Properties more Logically.  "


1:) quite good approach; keep in mind that the "MM/EHS" relation is the "core" one to set up a "good" number o REAL_SUB in the system; by "clever" use of "REAL_GRP", "PURE_SUB", "LIST_SUB"; expert server rules etc,  e.g. "mass updates" can be done quite "easy".  Keep in mindthat for proper set up of SAP EHS you need to check"DG" topics as well.Soitis not only taking care about "REAL_SUB" in the system but "DG_CL_SUB" and related stuff as well

2:) Make sure that "LIST_SUB"/"PURE_SUB" is set up "properly" (either using own data or by buying content". If you look into future: you may be know quite well: there are still a lot of changes happening in legislation. E.g. GHS, REACH related stuff etc.;

3.) Check my hint (property Tree STANDARD): From "experience" I would assume that you have may be many "Z classes" in the system which are now part of "STANDARD" tree. Make sure that you will be in "sync" with SAP STANDARD tree changes (which happens at least once a year)


IN context of:

"Then once the fundamentals and groundation are redefined; work from there.  I am looking into the WEBUI and finding it has the needs needed."


I assume if you talk about "WebUI" you talk about SAP RD/RM topic. Keep in mind: user interface is one "topic", A good useful future oriented data model is the "core" success factor especially for a company acting in EU (and based on my google research; especially in your case). Therefore I would expect that you will e.g. need to check (compare Z transaction to standard solution)

EHS-BD

EHS-PS

EHS-SVT

EHS-DG

EHS-GLM (?!)

EHS-WA (?)


as the core models to be setup or "redesigned" including functionality as eSDS, Dossier generation (SAP Product and Reach Compliance Suite ??); IUCLID data transfer etc.


One of the success factors is not "only" to think about "specifications" but phrases as well. Is the "phrase" set up done like you would "assume" ?


In this FORUM you will find a number of trheads dealing with

1.) data migration from legacy to SAP EHS system (in most  cases EHS-BD)

2.) data migration from legacy tp SAP EHS system for "only" DG purposes

3.) Set up of EHSM and data migration etc.


E.g. coming back to:

" I know BACK THEN, decades ago, much wasn't offered or so for that area, but if you stop in right after implementation, to not develope and grow with the system, "=> if you refer in this scenario of e.g. "rule sets": you are right: it took some time that some companies are now delivering "rulesets" "out of the box" to support generation of SDS/MSDS and other stuff


Good luck for you and the team.


C.B.


PS: if you check this FORUM you will find lot of additional stuff which might help you for the future; e.g. => in this case presentation is done by different big chemical company how they us SAP EHS; therefore to exchange "experience""/knowledge" (or at kleast to do "networking")  with others might help to identify: what is the best approach for you as one can assume that may be some companies will particiapte these events which are acting in the "same" area as your company

These documents might be of interest as well


former_member191252
Active Participant
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Lets go through each point:


How many here use EHS and RM for everything in their Company- WITHOUT any Z Transactions or Tables. meaning not to the extent of 1000 plus Extra Ztransactions or ZTabels.

Before 2012, most of the companies use this together (RM, RH&S), I am one among them. Using Ztranscation and Ztables is most common with that combination (SAP EHS & RM), not 1000 but ssignificantamount of Ztranscation/Ztables  where used. 

HELP- How do I begin to start from Sratch build an EHS and RM System.  I refuse to work with what is now built up. Nothing Standard and nothing as to how I learned the System.  Anyone have suggestions?


I am bit confussed here, so you joined a company and they use EH&S, EM with lot many custom transcations and Ztables? And you are not feeling comfortable ?

Suggestion: If you want to begin from scrath (hope you have enough authorization), I definitely recommend to go with SAP Recipe Development with SAP EH&S/EHSM. When you compare this new RD with RM, many out of box solutions are available compared to the old one.

or Suggestion to whom I can call to get help from outside- well i am new and not from this Company, and just really wonder "Where the Heck did I land", " we arent in EHS World anymore".   BE a good Chance to build something up, but I just dont know where to start.

You may need to call Account Manager (current client SAP Account Manager) for new software and other details or any implementation partners for help. If you need additional details, reply back, i will try to provide you some more information based on your query.

Former Member
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If I understand you, you have a very old software solution that looks nothing like what it looked like when it was purchased. SAP has not stood still in this time and has new solutions that are probably much closer to what you need. It may make sense to start fresh with one of these newer applications that represent today's best practices. You might start here in the SAP Solutin Explorer to learn what is available today.

Then, to learn more, contact your account team to discuss your needs and get a closer look at the solutions.