Those opinions are well understood and everyone agrees on it. That could be a great subject for another discussion. However we are moving away from the subject of poorly written posts

former_member182378 · ‎08-18-2015

Sometimes we see unclear posts, poorly written, without examples, not much detail related to the exact requirement, the business reasons behind these requirements, grammatical mistakes making comprehending difficult. Eventually, even if a well-intended wants to help, he/she cannot.

Do you think members who post these kinds of questions, replies; do the same in their day jobs too?

Could there be two different “levels” one for SCN and another (much thought over and proper effort put) that exhibits clarity for the "real" world?

Thanks!

Typewriter

Former Member · ‎08-18-2015

TW,

A few factors that I think contribute to poorly written posts:

Difficulty with English: This should be easily mitigated with tools like Google Translate assuming the user has a decent written command of a native language.
Hurry as a result of anxiety: Like I pointed out in , users ultimately save time by slowing down, searching first, and writing a good post rather than rushing out a bad one.
The expectation that people will ask follow-up questions as needed: The problem with this, at least for me, is that I'm more prone to ignore a question than ask for more information if the question is much too vague.
Laziness: It's a lot quicker and easier to throw something out on a forum and be able to say you're waiting on an answer than it is to do the hard mental work of thinking through an issue and doing a thorough search first.
Different accountability: At work, your job may be affected by poor communications. On SCN, it may affect your online reputation, which for some is not valued very highly.
Not understanding the value of good communications: I find at my work that there are some people, even at the executive level, who don't understand the effectiveness and respect that comes with good communications.

In answer to your question, I think that people will tend to exhibit similar communication patterns at work as they do with SCN, but I think they'll tend to be more or less lazy with their SCN posts depending on the value that they put on their online reputation and the intensity of their desire to get a quality answer quickly.

Thanks for posting the question: interesting topic!

Glenn

Former Member · ‎09-05-2015

the peace.

The peace frees us.

Let us light.

The soul floats.

You can think ...

Reflect ...

Walk.

She, the peace,

Opens new horizons.

New perspectives.

New tomorrows.

The peace does not feed the body,

But balances ...

Ponder ...

Reveals new dreams,

Hopes.

However,

There is only peace ...

If we want !!!

keohanster · ‎09-05-2015

I came across this while reading some of my high school age kid's 'Writing Requirements' and it really struck a nerve. Perhaps not every post needs to end with a 'clincher statement' but I believe that if a 15YO boy is being told 'These are the requirements for writing' that we are not being unreasonable in expecting our community of professionals to adhere to, at the very least, the first 3 bullet points.
Even the fourth one 'Uses details and examples from the work' would definitely be advisable.
We'll disregard the 'Evidence = full credit' because unless we implemented a solution where badly written questions ('Do my job') can result in a reduction of points, I'd hate to see what the community point gamers can come up with - to ask well-formed questions that are still ridiculous just in order to gain points.

What do you all think? I think there should be criteria that questions must meet. Just saying 'I'm new to SAP, how can I make Workflow send a notification to Person A' is not good enough.

Expecting I'm opening a can of worms, but hey, I can take it.

Cheers,

Sue

Former Member · ‎09-03-2015

When we have time to join our fragments then we recreate our souls.

Former Member · ‎09-03-2015

I just wanted to answer the comment but it disappeared...

former_member204995 · ‎09-02-2015

" Do you think members who post these kinds of questions, replies; do the same in their day jobs too? "

Yes and No...............A Lot have poor English and their verbal communication is not understood all the time, however, 80% it is a complete different story when it comes to writing, 20% you would not be able to make up if this was originally meant to be in English.

I would agree that we are not here trying to make fun of poorly written inquiry, but also it is not a bad idea to read your posting, make sure it could be understood, and the message is clear, prior to click Post.

And in case you are in doubt whether your posting in English is clear or not, turn off all your native music, movies, and try to listen and read more English.

It helps a lot, i know it helped me quarter of a century ago

Hope my English is clear enough.

For the fun of it: 23 years ago, i was on the phone with another member of the congregation, i am trying to give out the mailing address, then he stopped me to ask if the second word starts with a "B" like boy or a "B" like Beter ! Yes it took me more than 45 seconds to realize what he meant.

Cheers !

raphael_almeida · ‎09-01-2015

Hi everyone!

So ... I want to leave a question here of an issue that I see being seen much in the spaces, threads with low questions.

I see a lot in the ABAP space questions that in my opinion are of academic levels and often these posts are alerted, analyzed and deleted by the moderators or not, I warn enough space, I admit, but does that necessarily is correct? We are not here to exchange knowledge? Does banning questions thus would not run some of the community's ideology?

I'm sorry if I wrote something that had been discussed here, I confess that I was too lazy to see all replies

Jelena · ‎09-01-2015

Every time we have this kind of discussion someone comes in with a sermon about being more tolerant to fellow human beings, "turning the cheek", you name it.

As Rob correctly pointed out, we are not talking about life in general, we are talking only about SCN in particular. SCN is neither a temple nor farmers market. It's a professional web site where certain qualifications are expected.

Yes, we all were once beginners. For example, I have been on SCN for almost 10 years. When I joined, I had less than 1 year of SAP experience. Can anyone find at least one of my questions that would deserve a trip to LMGTFY? Most likely not. That's because I "fish" and do stuff myself before asking for help.

And no, sorry, we should not just ignore the "do my job" posts for a simple reason - it's quite possible we'll have to work with those people some day. And they will be likely producing sub-par services. On top of that, such "professionals" give bad rep to the whole profession or even country.

People who come to SCN with poorly-written questions and "do my job" posts are not some kind of disadvantaged or disabled population or "apples" who can't influence their own ripeness. They have access to Internet and a job. All they lack is desire to do things themselves and to learn.

mohan26050908 · ‎09-01-2015

Hi Typewriter,

Most of the users who is looking for solutions, they don't look at the matter.

Majority users prefer not to read stories and details about the post, they will go straight to the point

As long as problem solved cool...........(Modern Developers)

Developers don't think writing about narrations, details,

Majority users who is posting in SCN may not understating the issue. then how can they write clear post?

Majority SCN users are non native English speakers

Cheers

PRM

lbreddemann · ‎09-01-2015

Just had this idea:

Looks like to many here in this discussion the poorly written questions, blogs etc. are annoying.

Maybe even up to the level of TV ads...

How about having the option to "click away" the annoying content?

No rectification required, no "reason for Moderation alert", no nothing.

Just a click and the annoying content is gone and vanished forever from the users view.

But here's the catch: it'll be hidden just for that user.

Everyone else would still be able to see the content.

Up until a couple of people decide to click on the "this annoys me" button.

If say ten people clicked on it, then the OP gets an automated warning, the content is put back to edit by the OP and can be republished.

If the republished version yields new "annoys" it could be handed to moderation.

This at least would keep a lot of noise out of everybody's sight.

No?

former_member182378 · ‎08-31-2015

(playing the host) Lot of good views and contributions!

It all comes down to





 ...how we see and value our contributions and ultimately ourselves.

If one values him/herself highly then he/she will not be lazy - to search existing material, to take the time to do R&D on the test system etc., will be courageous - to say I don't know and please explain (in the right context) rather than hiding silently, will not want instant gratification

self value (not over-value), hard word (honesty, sincerity, rework) and perseverance

I might choose not to focus on my self value with my identity as Typewriter...but maintain focus on my "other" identify (which I might use for my day job). this mindset will make me point to "...is a choice".

TW

Former Member · ‎08-31-2015

Hi

About 10 years ago I was wondering the same question on one local technical forum and heard from my online-friend "rules of almost all the forums are too long, complex and boring, modern people prefer not to read more than one page, owners should either shorten the rules or find more moderators, ideally 24/7. Of course nobody has time to use search, so "google it" is a very unprofessional answer... And who cares about misspelling until it influences on his/her daily activities but it never does". Neither a kind nor a polit.correct answer from his side but explained the situation.

Maybe it is clip thinking that made and continue making many of us too lazy. Twitter is better than blog, picture is better than text, simplifying as much as possible, shortening words and using same terms for the same things in all the languages. Or maybe I am just going older and should buy the last iPhone?

Regards

former_member185132 · ‎08-25-2015

The skill of asking a proper question is closely linked to the skill of problem solving. If you have the habit of problem-solving (either on your own or via googling) then you know how to describe the one you can't solve and what info will be relevant to others. And you would include that in your question.

To me, a poorly written post is one with zero details (or the almost equally bad opposite, giving the whole info-dump from ST22/program code instead of just the relevant bits) and has a strong correlation with poor problem-solving habits. Language skills are just incidental here. If you just post samples of your input and expected/actual output one can probably figure out the solution even if you write the rest of your stuff in pidgin English. Maybe even if you mix in a bit of Klingon or Dothraki.

So people who have difficulty communicating the problem in SCN would face pretty much the same difficulty whether they chose verbal or written, because the problem is actually that they don't know what info they need to share. On this dimension I don't think people have distinctly different levels of clarity in asking questions whether it is SCN or StackOverflow or the "real world".

Now there are people who communicate better verbally than in writing and vice-versa, but that is a negligible factor - even if you're bad at writing down and describing the problem you could mention the needed details as long as you knew what they were. That's the key.

Former Member · ‎08-20-2015

I agree with all the hypotheses proposed so far but want to suggest another not yet mentioned. I suspect that some of these people have been in IT jobs that are very routine where a step by step recipe can be followed.( How to Unlock an SAP User and reset her password: 1. Launch SAP GUI and log on to correct SAP client 2. Select transaction SU01 from your Favorites or type SU01 in the Command Field and Enter. 3....) Now, after demonstrating proficiency at following a recipe for some time, they have been asked to do something requiring some problem solving or sleuthing skills, never heretofore required. What, you are not going to tell me how to do this? I have to THINK and figure it out, all on my own? Problem solving is a new experience for some people, even some IT people. Then if they have enough snap to search the SAP support portal, they may spot that handy link SAP Support on SCN, so then here they are.

Gretchen

Jelena · ‎08-19-2015

Gareth is a tough act to follow here... But to answer directly TW's question - I don't believe that any of those people suffer from a mental disability or a medical condition that affects their brain function, so in this case lack of skill is the choice and such posts are the consequence.

And I honestly don't know how those people could possibly have a job with SAP access. Heck, I don't even know how they managed to finish elementary school because that's where the basic cause and effect skills are developed.

However, I see such people outside of SCN as well, so starting to suspect that the movie Idiocracy (please use your mad search skills to look it up) has come true already.

Former Member · ‎08-19-2015

Hi All,

Here's my take on this...

I put a lot of the root cause down to the globalisation of our industry and subsequent demand for cheap resource, fast. The old adage of "pay peanuts, get monkeys" definitely rings true in a lot of cases, however, I think the issue is more nuanced than that. Basic problem solving and logic processing capabilities are simply not on the radar for lots of the people posting these sort of questions to SCN.

I also believe SCN is perceived completely differently depending on where in the world you are based and the culture you work within. I think many parts of our industry actually believe SCN is a support system, where you can turn to for help with anything, and someone will do your work for you. The idea that you ask your colleague sat next to you or your team lead for help with a problem is always much lower down the list of things to do, with "ask SCN" as always the top answer. I'm not sure where "Google is your friend" fits into that list. I strongly suspect some team leads actually answer any "hard" question with "ask SCN", as they have only got to team lead status by virtue of lasting long enough, not through any other valuable measure. They have none of their own problem solving or investigative skills and hence cannot pass those skills down to their team members.

To give an example, if ever I have something I don't understand/can't make work/can't break/want to know more about/etc. I open up Chrome and search via Google. I then follow the results down various avenues until I either hit a dead end with no chance to find the result (doesn't happen often); I have dealt with the specific problem/issue/opportunity that triggered my initial search; or I have gathered enough knowledge and understanding to satisfy myself for the time-being. If Google ever fails me, I'll ask those around me (either in my physical location, my broader "local" network or indeed global network depending on the topic - sometimes I know the correct person/persons to ask straight off.) Sometimes of course, I'll know to ask my network before Google'ing. Over the years, I've developed problem solving and investigative abilities because they are a fundamental aspect of doing my job well. I've always maintained one of the key skills of an SAP consultant isn't knowing everything, it is knowing how to find out the stuff you don't know. This will never change.

The people who post rubbish to SCN simply don't think like this. Their problem solving and investigative abilities start and stop with the task "Post inane and vague question to SCN". That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. This approach almost appears to be encouraged. We see SCN used as a training tool - "hey new team member who knows nothing about the PP module, your training starts this afternoon. We want you to follow the PP space on SCN and learn everything you can - next week you will start to support our biggest customers with their PP functions." I believe SCN points and reputation is used as part of the CV building process in an attempt to show capability as well.

I could rant on and on and on, on this topic but will stop there...

Cheers,

G.

former_member186746 · ‎08-19-2015

You mean, like this post

I think this is the problem

First line is

SAP Community Network (SCN) is a great place for SAP professionals to connect, collaborate and build their reputations.

I have to come to the conclusion, even if it is not a nice conclusion but it is the harsh reality, that this forum is also used by non-professionals who try to become professionals by trying to cowboy their way out of requirements they do not understand which explains why these questions make no sense.

If you don't understand the requirement and have no experience in the field you will get poorly written posts T-dubz.

I think that this accounts for the majority of poorly constructed for want of a better word.. questions.

Cheers, Rob Dielemans

former_member186576 · ‎08-19-2015

Wake up a race car driver from his mid-night sleep (You better be his best friend). Provide him a race car with a target destination and time limit. He will surely demonstrate his driving ability even with those heavy-eyes. Since he acquired those hard earned skills,most probably he wouldn't drive negligent (just to make a choice).

Having said that, it's also silly and immature to accuse or poke someone who lack certain desired skills. That is the way this world will always be, e.g.few extremely rich (Warren Buffet),some average (bill to bill) and some very poor. Similarly, few skilled (TW Type writer), some semi-skilled and some unskilled (me). That equation is never gonna change and it's unwise to sweat on that. After a long and lengthy discussion, we all will be back to square one. It's just a matter of time.However the topic is good for a healthy discussion.

poorly written posts...is it a choice or lack of skill?

Accepted Solutions (1)

Accepted Solutions (1)

Answers (17)

Answers (17)

Those opinions are well understood and everyone agrees on it. That could be a great subject for another discussion. However we are moving away from the subject of poorly written posts

Re: ASEGURAMIENTO DE TABLAS

Re: Getting error while Creating role in BRM

Re: How to enable the add, delete,edit system on s...

Re: CJS-30252 Running priviledged function stop of...

Successfactors login issue.