Why WebDynpro ?

[Former Member]

Hi all,

I have in recent times got introduced to PDK. Coding in this case is done using HTML-B , JSPDynpage ,DynPage .....etc., The more i work in this line the more I feel that these alone will serve all the purpose of application development.

What additional advantages does WebDynpro provide apart from supporting different clients.When I am using my computer browser as the only client system.. does it offer any other advantages.....

Though WebDynpro UI development is faster, most of the time due to lack of flexibility in design (lack of flexibility in personalization) i feel its easier to opt for other ways of UI creation using PDK..

I am not sure if I am correct.. but i want to know other people's opinion in this regard.. Hopefully it will give a deeper insight on what webdynpro is really capable of....

Any inputs or comments or suggestions ..welcome..!

Regards

Bharathwaj

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

How about these:

1. Web Dynpro comes for free with Web AS 6.40

2. You don't need to install an Enterprise Portal to run Web Dynpro's.

3. If you build the UI using Web Dynpro's you have the option to display them in any kind of portal (not just SAP Enterprise Portal) or standalone.

4. Web Dynpro for ABAP will become available in the future, offering improved SAP backend communication performance.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi,

I am not sure if that is very good to convince someone to take up WebDynpro.

SAP's emphasis is on making companies go for a complete business suite..

And when someone buys a Web AS server.. i dont think they will just have WebDynpro.Isn't it grossly insufficient.. to make a complete enterprise application...

And when someone buys a WebAS server they usually plan to shift to SAP system soon..So the advantage of applications running on any portal.. does not provide a lot of leverage to this product(tool rather..!) as such.

Thanks anyway !

regards

Bharathwaj

Message was edited by: Bharathwaj R

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Bharathwaj,

you are right. Many Web frameworks have been developed over the years. But what is the preferred (Web) framework and when to use what? Exactly this questions has been conducted at the TheServerSide Java Symposium 2005 beginning this year. Please find the results here:

What is your preferred (Web) framework?

- Struts 47,0%

- Spring 20,9%

- Tapestry 7,9%

- Other 24,2%

Different frameworks for different usage types - people have different requirements:

- Struts for scalability

- Tapestry for beeing light-weight

- JSF for re-usebility

(just do name some highlights)

SAP application developer (outside and inside SAP) do have specific requirements also:

- Language independent (Java and ABAP) model for building professional user interfaces

- In order to support professional UIs, Libraries with standard, complex and graphical UI elements are needed (SAP has experience for many years)

- A Java Development Environment for versioning, deployment and global development

- Predefined interfaces to backend systems (Web Services, JavaBeans, XMI, RFC, …)

- Client independency (local installad client, Browser, mobile browsers, Macromedia flash...)

- UI Personalization / adaptation for end users

- Interoperability with other applications based on different Web frameworks (e.g. JSF) since we know that no Web frameworks fits all needs. Communication and openess is also the key.

So I hope I could give some good reasons for Web Dynpro.

If you have further questions, please come back!

Best regards,

Karin@SAP

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Bharathwaj,

On the one hand you say, "I have in recent times got introduced to PDK. Coding in this case is done using HTML-B , JSPDynpage ,DynPage .....etc., The more i work in this line the more I feel that these alone will serve all the purpose of application development. "

And then you go on to say, "And when someone buys a Web AS server.. i dont think they will just have WebDynpro.Isn't it grossly insufficient.."

If you are anyway creating applications using HTML-B, DynPage, etc., then you have already locked yourself into SAP NetWeaver! One of the big advantages of WebDynpro is that WebDynpro apps can be run as standalone applications, and not necessarily in a portal.

As long as you are building applications in the NetWeaver environment there is no compelling reason NOT to build them with WebDynpro.

It is correct that you lose some UI flexibility - HTML and pages full of custom JSP tags and client-side JavaScripts are a thing of the past. What you gain, though, are extremely robust applications and a consistent look-and-feel across all your applications.

Regards,

Walter

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi all,

I agree that WD for Java is very neatly built...Its a framework for the developers.. !

But when we consider the business perspective...what does a customer want.. ?

An application that looks very good and pleasing to the eye.. a navigation which is fast ... a flow which is neat..

It would be interesting if we could discuss it rather on the lines of what SAP is planning to offer customers from WD for Java.

When i raised this post initially , WD for ABAP was not available..

When we say that the biggest advantages of WD Java are pre-defined models, faster UI development, efficient access of the R/3 backend systems.. etc..,

I am of the opinion that, all these are advantages for a developer and not for the customer.

And JDI is not an advantage of WD for Java..! It is a good feature which works with Developer Studio for a vareity of projects.

With WD for ABAP also doing the same work, we have a bit too many options.. and whatever is missing here.. We can fill it with Java.. Isnt it ?(And isnt WD for Java.. a API wrapped on top of Java)

The advantage which WD might offer to the customer is multiple platforms..i.e .. browser and mobile device. ! Business applications have not got this extent of reach till now.. so for sometime.. we cant sell this as a positive point..

Whatever is possible in WebDynpro is as such possible in Java also ..Developers are ready to take the pain/effort of spending a few extra hours working with java directly instead of getting into the clutter of starting with WD Java and then getting stuck with functionalities which are missing.. or tweaking the UI elements.. !

WD framework for java is excellent.. No doubt..! But are there specific benefits which a customer will get in opting for it !

To my knowledge.. let me think ..What applications can we develop using WebDynpro for Java..

A full blown site for internet(shopping carts etc..!) Not with its present limitations..SAP built UI elements are something which cannot be modified each time a customer whats a small additional feature.. lack of flexibilty is a big drawback ! And it cant give a site which will please the masses !

Internal banking applications... I will say YES ! No need of flashy stuff ! Neat interfaces are sufficient... ! But the company has to have a R/3 backend.. ! Huge banks might take it if they really love SAP (if they have it or they plan to complete move into it ! ). !

Would like to hear all your opinions ! no offense intended! Believe me ! I am a bigger fan of WD for Java.. than 90 % of the ppl in this forum ...

Karin : I agree with you ! But i would still like to hear more from you .. in a perspective of a customer !(Leaving the multiple platforms advantage !)

(Extremely sorry .. if its sounds like an argument ! I just want it to be a good discussion ! )

Regards

Bharathwaj

Message was edited by: Bharathwaj R.Content edited.

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

I cannot give you an official statement to these arguments, but only my personal opinion.

To me, these arguments sound like a railway passenger who complains that there are all these cool cars around that can drive faster and everywhere they want to and he cannot even change the color of the train or append his own wagon.

Armin

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Armin,

I would prefer hearing your personal opinion than a official statement.I guess that's what a forum is also about !

Hmmm ! Your analogy has got me by surprise..! But let me try to defend my point.

In a customers perspective..

Trains are for mass transport !

Cars are for personal transport.

Trains offer customers some benefits which a flashy car or my own "Colored" wagon can never offer..

And Vice versa.. ! The point I am try to explore hear.. or want to know about is that...

In similar lines what does WebDynpro offer to a customer ?

Regards

Bharathwaj

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Please define "customer" of a framework for building (a certain class of) applications.

Armin

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Armin.

They are the people who make use of these "Certain class of applications"..

And is Web Dynpro for Java ,just another Java/J2EE framework...! To my understanding.. ! No.. ! Is it wrong ?

Regards

Bharathwaj

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

To me, the "customers" of Web Dynpro are the developers that create Web Dynpro applications or even other frameworks using Web Dynpro (like the Pattern framework), not the users of the resulting applications.

Armin

[Former Member]

Hi Bharathwaj

Some advantages of WebDynpro are discussed below:

1. Different implementation languages are supported.

2. Strict separation of layout data and business data through use of the Model View Controller concept.

3. The use of declarative and graphical tools significantly reduces the implementation effort.

4. Syntax check at design time.

5. The use of declarative and graphical tools significantly reduces the implementation effort.

6. Web Dynpro supports a structured design process.

7. Stateful applications are supported – that is, if the page is changed, the data that are required again remain intact, so you can access the data from a previous page again.

8. Reuse and better maintainability by using components.

9. Automatic data transport using data binding.

10.Web Dynpro for ABAP is also available now offering improved SAP backend communication performance.

If you want more details i'll provide you.

thanks & regards

Madhusudan

[yasu_ramaiah]

Madhusudan's bullets/points are very apt. As usual I started with jspdynpage and then when came across WD it was painful. But once you are aquinted with WD its the easiest/quickest env to develop 3 tier applications. I dont think users of the applications would say the UI is bad. Also SAP customers/partners are benefited as well bcz of the rapid development. Reg the flexibility of UI elements I think it is a development process. The WD(as DCs) in a big team env with NWDI is a big plus.

Thanks.

The other advantage is the WD metadata may be used for ABAP WD also(This is completely my guess).

[Former Member]

Hi Karin,

- Interoperability with other applications based on different Web frameworks (e.g. JSF) since we know that no Web frameworks fits all needs. Communication and openess is also the key.

I dont have the slightest idea about JSF.Could you suggest me some other framework and some links which will help me to understand this interoperability of WebDynpro with other frameworks.

Regards

Bharathwaj

[Former Member]

Hi Bharathwaj,

JavaServer Faces (JSF) is being developed as JSR 127 under the Java Community Process, with the goal of creating a standard framework for user interface components to be used in Web applications.

Interoperability means that you can call a JSF from a Web Dynpro based application, not only that, parameters can be passed to the JSF. JSF is able to work with these parameters, new parameters/values can be send back to the Web Dynpro application. New APIs will be introduced very soon in order to do the interoperability (Resume, Suspend).

Hope that helps!

Karin

[Former Member]

Hi Bharathwaj,

Something I would like to add to Karin Schattka's Note.

Web Dynpro could be viewed from few different perspectives

Developer Perspective:

Highly sophisticated web user interface framework for building business applications.

Provides pre-build infrastructure to connect to R/3 and any industry standard model ( XML, EJB, SQL). If new standard model (web-services would a recent example) comes along and you would like to use, you can plug in and use.

Let me give you a very simple example: You have web UI built using EJB and for some strategic reason you would like to change this model to web services, you could change it and still use same web UI with ease.

The point I am trying to make here is “<b>FUTURE PROOFING YOUR APPLICATION</b>”. This is a win big for developers.

SAP Perspective:

I am no technology evangelist; I believe Web Dynpro is real strategic Web User Interface tool and best Web User Interface technology I have seen and used.

SAP developed various Web User Interface technologies with every new technology that has come out.

I think you might have seen all this

BSP - HTML + Dynamic rendering (ABAP Based)

HTMLB - JSP (Java Based)

PRT API – JSP based Portal API

Mobile User Interface tools for Mobile infrastructure

By the end of the day we have all this technology/ programming options, which puts quite a burden on everyone (developer, customer, SAP) to keep up.

SAP can’t afford to build UI tools for every new technology that’s coming out, so the concept of Model Driven Architecture comes into picture. Web Dynpro is Meta –Data driven programming environment that kind of shields technology (Web-BSP, JSP, and Mobile User Interface) / programming language (JAVA, ABAP) behind the tool.

At a very high level any UI development would be done at Web Dynpro level (MVC, COMPONENT REUSE) and the rest is left for the tool to generate for the target technology.

The point I am trying to make here is “<b>SAP IS FUTURE PROOFING IT’S TECHOLOGY OPTIONS AND TOOLS</b>”. This is a big win to SAP and its customers.

The future releases of Web Dynpro would have UI Patterns, Guided Procedures, which I believe would take user interface development to next level.

Please let me know if I could be of any help to answer any questions reg. this note.

Thanks

Sridhar

Message was edited by: Phani Edala

Message was edited by: Phani Edala

[Former Member]

hi bharath

i too had the same doubt. coz with pdk you can do all you want, even use the jco client connectivity ( though requires more coding than webdynpro). But as far as i know it loads the entire framework. EP is designed to handle communication between applications ( and others like km) rather than connectivity to the database.

Mainly the ui elements and connectivity to sap(rfc) in webdynpro score over EP.

regards

vln