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Points system finally removed?

Former Member
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I just noticed after the "downtime" today, that the point system seems to be vanished... just curious...

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Markus

Accepted Solutions (0)

Answers (1)

Answers (1)

michael_goeck
Active Participant
0 Kudos

Hi Markus, all,

we have not disabled the points system, it is just detached from the forums, for investigation reasons. We work on bringing it back as soon as possible.

You all can still earn points by submitting webblogs, technical articles, wiki contributions etc.

Regards,

Michael

markus_doehr2
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

No problem - I don´t mind whether it´s there or not, I just saw various threads, LONG discussions about it - and I was just curious if it would have been replace or completely abandoned.

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Markus

Former Member
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I too noticed the LONG discussions about point system.. I wonder why some people make this a big deal ... If they stop the point system, I think many people wont even bother about answering as they used to… After all we live in a commercial world i.e. noting comes free

Thanks

Prince Jose

Former Member
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"If they stop the point system, I think many people wont even bother about answering as they used to"

From the standard of a lot of the "answers", this probably wouldn't be a bad thing 😛

Former Member
0 Kudos

LOL .. good one

Thanks

Prince Jose

JPReyes
Active Contributor
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"From the standard of a lot of the "answers", this probably wouldn't be a bad thing :-P"

I don't think this is funny... if the answer to the question is not up to the person asking the question standard it shouldn't be rewarded. as far as i'm concerned theres lots of people (including myself) that like the points system and do their very best to keep the answers coming to the best standard possible... I'll be one not coming around if the points system is removed.

Regards

Juan

markus_doehr2
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Why do you need a "point system" to get rewarded to give good answers? I don´t get that.

The problem is IMHO not the answers - but most of the too basic questions, that are posted, because it´s easier for people to answer the same questions again and again instead of first doing some research.

I personally don´t have a problem with a missing point system, it´s the same with everything, as soon as a critical mass of people is reached, abuse is imminent and this abuse is much more frustrating (for me) than the total lack of such a system.

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Markus

JPReyes
Active Contributor
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IMO abuse is only the result of lack of supervision... In a forum with around 5000 concurrent users between guests and members theres only a handful for moderators...

Without the points system this will be another boring forum... point system create a competitive environment and motivate people to increase the amount of posts... hence the success of SDN in attract such a big community of "Active posters"...

Regards

Juan

markus_doehr2
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

The number of points is meaningless - because everyone knows, that it can be forged easily by creating several accounts under different names which is technically almost impossible to avoid.

So - tell me please what you "gain" when you get points? A T-Shirt (that no one else will see)? I don´t see a real competition because there´s not a single "value" that you will get if you have more points than somebody else.

What annoys me most are those "please send me a step-by-step screenshot list to do XY, my email is...." - and the second one adding "send me please too..." etc. You can gain all your points like this by sending around (copyrighted) material without giving a single value back to the community - what this forum is about primarily, People can be such demanding bricks...

Famous example: /thread/313102

more than 10.000 hits and 140 people adding "send me also..."

So for me the number of points is pretty meaningless.

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Markus

JPReyes
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Completely agree with you in this kind of scenario... again, this is only the result of lack of supervision.... As you I also hate, point harvesting, stupid questions, people looking for documentation without researching, oportunists, etc.... and usually this people get bored pretty quickly and refrain from continue.... but i also believe and know a few people who do their best to help...

The only thing that i gain from the points is the feeling of recognition, and again this make the forum competitive and interesting... You and me know that a T-shirt is not what people are here for (hopefully)....

Also i probably read 500 posts a day... I have learned a lot on the process and probably one thing that make me different is that i'm here not only to help the rest but to help myself... I recon i wouldn't be half interested if the point system was not in place.

Regards

Juan

markus_doehr2
Active Contributor
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I don´t think supervision will help.

Too much supervision destroys the community, then it would be more or less a second OSS/CSN with the difference that not only SAP employees may post.

I´m sure that if the average "sound" of the forum would be more strict and rude, not half of the people would be here, neither those, who ask nor those who answer although that would certainly help to avoid those kind of chain messages.

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Markus

Former Member
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Whatever the case is, SDN threads (creating questions, answering etc) reduced drastically in number. I used to have around 200 mails from different forums when I open my outlook every morning. Now it’s around 80-90 , So point system can make difference !!

Thanks

Prince Jose

former_member583013
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

> Without the points system this will be another boring

> forum... point system create a competitive

> environment and motivate people to increase the

> amount of posts... hence the success of SDN in

> attract such a big community of "Active posters"...

It's not about to increase the amount of posts...It's to increase the amount of useful posts and answers...With points systems, we got like 10 answers for a very simple question....Without points systems...We got a maximum of 2 answers, which is really good, because we don't need 10 answers talking about the same thing...Also, without points we get rid of the who post complete SAP Help information...Again, it's not about competitive environment....It's about collaborating environment...

Greetings,

Blag.

To me, points system should go forever on forums...

JPReyes
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Hi Alvaro...

I'm going to have to agree to disagree...

It can be collaborative and competitive at the same time without affecting the health of the forum...

Regards

Juan

matthias_kasig2
Participant
0 Kudos

I was linked here by somebody whom I wanted to reward points. And I have to say this:

concerning the point system... I read your articles! this is bollocks! <b>if there are plans to investigate the rewarding system, why is it not announced in the forums area?</b> Like this I was wasting time just to find out, that it is not my corrupt Internet Explorer who is responsible for the missing radio butts - and like some Prince states, the amount of questions being answered is becoming less and less! I mean - many points also indicate, that somebody is doing a good job on the SDN - and the amount of points might be also a status symbol for those with tons of points - but yeah, why not?

I mean, if there are 10 answers to a simple question, this is still better than no answer at all to a difficult question... and as one can obviously see, getting points is a big motivation. In my old company people started writing good weblogs and had always an eye on their forums - so we had an internal competition! And really nobody was just trying to write nonsense, just to have better chances for points!

<b>For me SDN was always a big help, much better than OSS! So why cut it off? or is this in fact the idea behind it?</b>

Matthias Kasig

former_member583013
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

Relax Matthias...I know that SDN should had inform us that they were going to shut down the Points System for whatever reason...I wasn't aware of that myself...Even when I know the guys running SDN -:)

When I said that is wrong to have 10 answers to a simple question, was because from those 10 people answering...just a couple of them want to help...Other 8 just want to earn points no matter what...And that's no good at all..

It's nice to have points and get cool gifts...But at this time...That had become the main goal of many Community members...And that's no they way we must go...

Greetings,

Blag.

markus_doehr2
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

[...]

> I mean - many points also indicate,

> that somebody is doing a good job on the SDN - and

> the amount of points might be also a status symbol

> for those with tons of points - but yeah, why not?

Because this will mislead - as you youself just state. If you can't make a difference out of someone doing a "good job" and those who earn points by sending documentation around, what sense does it make to have them all? Just to gain them? Plain Hunter-Gatherer? For the sake of itself?

> I mean, if there are 10 answers to a simple question,

> this is still better than no answer at all to a

> difficult question...

You think so? I don't.

Example: If someone posts parts of a dump with DBIF_RSQL_INVALID...-something in the forum and he gets 3 people suggesting to check his network configuration and to reboot the system, then it's a waste of time - of all those, who read that specific thread also - because they will try the same again.

> and as one can obviously see,

> getting points is a big motivation.

Yes - and that's the thing: Getting POINTS is the movitvation, not giving ideas to answer a question. You mix up cause and and effect.

[...]

> b]For me SDN was always a big help, much better than

> OSS! So why cut it off? or is this in fact the idea

> behind it?</b>

I doubt that the reason behind is to "remove" it, it's just being investigated. Maybe what we are doing here it's just "hot air" because there may be some technical review of it.

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Markus

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hi Alvaro,

We have to remember that there are many ways to resolve an issue. Someone will identify the root cause in 1-2 steps but some other takes 4-5 steps. I believe these analyzing skills come with experience. I love to see more replies to questions, just because I can learn something new and try when I face similar situation. I always read replies from Markus Dohr , Juan Reyes , Ruchit Khushu , Fidel Vales , Eric etc ..

Thanks

Prince Jose

matthias_kasig2
Participant
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Hi Markus et al,

I wasn't saying that POINTS is the motivation for writing on SDN but A motivation.

Actually I don't care wheather some hotshot answers my question because of points or humanity... but if only a few of these experts do not care for answering anymore just because they don't get points, then I think it is wrong to remove the point system. Actually I never had the impression, that there were point hunters hanging in my threads. Sure, sometimes people wrote the same stuff, but in my opinion still in good will - and never ever just nonsense!

<i>... "those who earn points by sending documentation around" ...</i>

in fact i noticed threads were over 100 guys bumped in, because somebody sent docs around - this clearly is a misuse of the forums, esp. if the material is under copyright...

but the guys I refer to wrote excellent blogs eg about new XI BPM processes, and I doubt you can call that trash. And if they did it because of points... what the heck?

Also the amount of points one can give used to be limited, still people were answering questions in such threads, where eg all 6s and 2s were gone. I even put things in threads, which were already cloesed an received answers... maybe not as much answers as in new threads

What means misleading? In my daily work I have to create solutions - sometimes hard to achieve, when on my own. Then I put the problem on the SDN and receive help - and in such emergencies I really appreciate getting loads of answers, wotever people drives to do it! So this, in my opinion is the first aim of the SDN. This is why I accept maybe 10 same answers to a simple question.

Regards, Matthias

KKilhavn
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

>This is why I accept maybe 10 same answers to a simple question.

This is the only part of your post I disagree with. Copiers should not be encouraged. Fine, if they build on a previous answer, give additional information or a different example or a different angle at it a reward may be deserved. However, there are quite a few answers who are simply a copy of a previous answer - although sometimes they actually bother to rewrite it ever so slightly - arriving hours after the first answer. If you give them even 2 points for doing that they will continue to do it, and they add no real value. Instead they keep moving the threads to the top of the list, annoying everyone who tries to follow the forum.

By all means, reward people who try to help - but don't reward point-hunters who don't contribute anything at all. It's the only way to get rid of them.

matthias_kasig2
Participant
0 Kudos

ok Kjetil - I totally agree! But I never came across such hunters like u describe, who really copy paste stuff! But I do believe you that there are some bastards out there.

I am merely a user in terms of USING the SDN as I ask much more questions than providing answers. So this is my simple view - if people love points - give them points. I am much more interested in getting help. But if inbetween I come across stuff I can answer, I do it, wheather I get points or not.

I wonder how people can have so much time to always have an eye on the SDN... do they not all have a job to do???

Thanx, Matthias

former_member583013
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

> ok Kjetil - I totally agree! But I never came across

> such hunters like u describe, who really copy paste

> stuff!

You might have not seen them...But being a Moderator myself...I have to deal with them everyday...And trust me...It's not good at all...

> I am merely a user in terms of USING the SDN as I ask

> much more questions than providing answers. So this

> is my simple view - if people love points - give them

> points.

Sure, people love points...But actually they love to "get" points but not to "give" points....I have seen so many questions with excelent answers that are still not closed, because the people that ask the questions doesn't assing points and instead open new questions...Maybe if all people give points on good answers, points system would make sense again...

> But if inbetween I come across stuff I can answer, I

> do it, wheather I get points or not.

That's the idea....Answer for the love to the community, not for the love of points...

> I wonder how people can have so much time to always

> have an eye on the SDN... do they not all have a job

> to do???

Sure, I got a job to do....Two jobs actually....One on Real Life and another on SDN....I spend most of my working time on SDN, because luckily I'm pretty good on ABAP...Also, I got the collaborations of nice people that write me mails when they found "Forum Offenders"...

Greetings,

Blag.

JPReyes
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

You all know we can keep going for hours/days/weeks talking about this...

My point at the end of the day is... As an SDN user i can see a lot more pros than cons in the point system... YES, you will always find the <censored> opportunist that try to jump on top of everyone but for each one of those we probably have 5 people who do care.

Regards

Juan

Former Member
0 Kudos

I have to say Juan, I think you may be in the minority here in this forum/thread with regards to the points system on the forums.

I think the problem is you are supporting the points system based on how it should work, in an ideal world. In reality though, the system is only serving to slowly water down the level of technical help/knowledge/information available on SDN. If we didn't have so many pointless, lazy questions asked then we wouldn't have so many people eager to post copies of previous posts, or of SAP help or whatever. Of course, if people stopped posting these rubbish answers then maybe people would stop being so lazy and posting the rubbish questions - its a bit of a vicious circle! Basically, in my opinion, the points system is helping to perpetuate this scenario.

Anyway, you are quite right, we could all go around this over and over for ages (we probably will But you will notice, its the same old people in the Coffee Corner and Suggestions forums talking about this, and that group of people is quite a small proportion of the overall SDN user base. I'd argue that for each one of us who care there is about 100 (maybe 1000?!) users who don't give a toss - and they are the ones making most of the noise, ignoring the guidelines of using the forums and doing anything and everything to get points purely for the sake of getting points.

Gareth.

Former Member
0 Kudos

Hi,

The ONLY solution to the forums problems is VERY STRICT moderation to enforce STRICTLY the rules.

I go on a lot of hobby forums where threads are often closed and where bad doing users are getting banned. These are the best and most interesting forums I know.

They are also the most civilised and polite ones.

Here, on a professional forum with thousands of users, this "dirty" job should be done by professional moderators. You cannot be a volontary cop !

Regards,

Olivier

former_member204746
Active Contributor
0 Kudos

I agree, maybe SDN does not have enough moderators. with more strict moderation, you will get less and less abuse.

just look at SAPFANS, answers look generally good and you get less abuse.