Virtual Windows XP on a linux desktop

[former_member185837]

Has someone any experience with the [Xen|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xen] or the [KVM|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel-based_Virtual_Machine] solution?

I have a linux ubuntu desktop and I want to run Micorsoft Windows XP in a virtual machine, in order to use the SAP's frontend tools (such as the BEx Analyzer) that are not provided for the linux environment.

I wonder which solution would be the more effective for this purpose.

Thanks, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari]

Edited by: Davide Cavallari on Dec 26, 2007 3:44 PM

[hannes_kuehnemund · Accepted solution]

Dear Davide,

we at the LinuxLab successfully ran the SAP Netweaver Development Studio (Windows Application) using CrossOver Office on a Linux Desktop. Maybe you give it a try.

Hannes

[former_member185837 · Accepted solution]

Hello Hannes,

CrossOver Linux is a proprietary product by CodeWeavers. Rather we're looking for a free - possibly open source - solution to fulfill our needs.

The two solutions I mentioned in my original post seem promising. Another possibility would be [VirtualBox|http://www.virtualbox.org] which I'm currently testing.

I wonder which one would be the best for our specific purpose.

Cheers, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari]

[hannes_kuehnemund · Accepted solution]

But then you also use proprietary software, namely Windows XP

[former_member185837 · Accepted solution]

Well. the SAP BEx suite itself is proprietary software ;^)

The point is having as few licenses as possible.. (and we already own the XP licenses)

Cheers, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari]

Edited by: Davide Cavallari on Dec 29, 2007 12:23 PM

[markus_doehr2 · Accepted solution]

Do we - as customers - have a chance? We do not.

SAP always propagates to "let the customers choose" but in fact, you cannot choose. On the server side this may be possible - although there are always drawbacks when getting support if you´re not on Windows - many support people @ OSS are lost when there is no icon to click (and yes, it is still true).

Instead of choosing a platform independent way for BI developers, SAP uses proprietary only techniques (.NET, ADODB, Adobe SVG et al, MONO doesn´t count) and so you are URGED to use M$ software. I´m not religious about it, I´m just saying, that there are alternatives (e. g. Java?) to do the same things.

I never understood that from a technical point of view - so I must assume, that the reason for this is a non-technical one (political correctness, contracts, whatever). It becomes even worse, if you try to use a technology platform such as Solution Manager with a non-M$ frontend - it does simply not work. Isn´t it an antagonism to speak of a "technology platform" when you can only use the full functionality with only a single operating system?

Markus

[former_member185837 · Accepted solution]

Hi Markus,

I agree with your position.

You may be interested in sharing your ideas and posting your contribution in these other discussions:

• [Will SAP Netweaver work only on MS-windows systems?|;

• [SAP BW BEx on Linux|;

• [BEx in Linux Environment?|;

Cheers, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari]

Edited by: Davide Cavallari on Dec 28, 2007 12:41 AM

[former_member185837 · Accepted solution]

Hi,

having just read a couple of nice blogs by [Hannes Kuehnemund|/people/hannes.kuehnemund/blog] ([Impressions of the Virtualization Track on the Linuxtag 2007|https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/weblogs?blog=/pub/wlg/6666] [original link is broken] [original link is broken] [original link is broken];, [Considerations for Linux and Xen|https://www.sdn.sap.com/irj/sdn/weblogs?blog=/pub/wlg/6132] [original link is broken] [original link is broken] [original link is broken];), I'd say that similar performance should be get both with Xen and KVM.

Since windows XP would run as a guest (on a virtual machine running on a linux physical machine -- or host), this would be a scenario where the guest runs an unmodified operating system (for Microsoft hasn't released a modified version for Xen's [hypervisor|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor], I suppose).

This requires the HV (Hardware Virtualization) option, provided by Intel's Vanderpool or AMD's Pacifica-capable CPUs, used both by Xen and KVM.

In this thread's scenario (running the BEx tools and SAP GUI), I/O performance and network performance are quite critical. Not being able to taking advantage of the para-virtualization capability of Xen, but having to rely on the HV option (which is probably slower with I/O and network operations, see this [post|http://marc.info/?l=xen-users&m=115745154318263&w=2]) is unlucky.

On the other hand, I wonder whether other solutions (such as VirtualBox or VMWare Server, which are based on a type 2, or hosted [hypervisor|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor] rather than on a type 1, or native hypervisor) would be better. The Wikipedia entry [VMware ESX Server|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMware_ESX_Server] states that the VMware ESX hypervisor virtualization approach provides lower overhead and better control and granularity for allocating resources (CPU-time, disk-bandwidth, network-bandwidth, memory-utilization) to virtual machines, compared to so-called "hosted" virtualization, where a base OS handles the physical resources. Therefore I'd say that the answer is probably no. Anyway any experience on this topic would be absolutely helpful!

Regards, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari]

Edited by: Davide Cavallari on Dec 29, 2007 8:15 PM

[markus_doehr2 · Accepted solution]

The problem is not, that you can´t "virtualize" Windows with whatever on Linux but to have native tools.

Markus

[former_member185837 · Accepted solution]

Hi Markus, if we had native tools we'd be better off for sure!

Unfortunately that's not the case - and probably it won't be the case in the foreseeable future either. Therefore I'm afraid we'll have to rely on virtualization in order to be able to run several SAP tools.. :^(

Anyway it seems choosing the right [virtual machine monitor|http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypervisor] for a specific purpose is not trivial!

Thanks, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari]

[hannes_kuehnemund · Accepted solution]

Hi Davide,

I had a similar problem when i had to manage several XenEnterprise or VMware ESX installations with my Linux laptop. Both tools are only available for Microsoft Windows. Therefore I had to find a way to use both tools with my laptop. There are several possibilities available to do so.

1) Use HVM (my laptop supports HVM) with a Xen kernel and a fully virtualized Windows.

This was actually not possible, because there is no functional accelerated 3D support for the dom0 kernel. Compiling the modules myself is not satisfying for me, I'd like to have a solution out of the box.

2) Use VirtualBox with a virtualized Windows.

This failed, because either the virtualized Windows or the VirtualBox daemon crashed several times a day. This solution is not useable for me at all.

There are two solutions left. Using VMware Server or CrossOver Office to let both solutions run. As I only had VMware licenses, I installed VMware Server using a Windows XP Image to be able to use VMware Infrastructure Client and Citrix XenCenter.

The same situation here, Linux on server is supported, but the frontend tools are not available. (It is not a SAP only issue ).

Thanks,

Hannes

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi there

There IS another relatively cheap Virtualisation product out there which could work for you.

This is Parallels -- I tried this in the past and it worked fine on a Linux box running a Windows XP guest. It's maybe not as stable as VMWARE but they seem to be more "cutting edge" in supporting newer hardware (and it also works on MACS/APPLE).

On the whole it worked fine and it ran a trial ABAP netweaver versuion on a Windows XP guest on a SUSE linux host.

http://www.parallels.com/

You could probably run a vmware created VM on it as most virtual products these days support the .VDMK virtual machine disk structures etc.

To install Windows as a Guest OS of course you'll need a valid Windows licence and install CD/DVD.

Here's also a little snippet concerning real world performance as well -- Parallels doesn't come out too badly either here.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1122

Cheers

jimbo

[former_member185837 · Accepted solution]

There are two solutions left. Using VMware Server or CrossOver Office to let both solutions run. As I only had VMware licenses, I installed VMware Server using a Windows XP Image to be able to use VMware Infrastructure Client and Citrix XenCenter.

Hi Hannes and thanks a lot for sharing your experience here.

From what you've said it seems [VMware server|http://www.vmware.com/products/server] was a good compromise, wasn't it? This sounds even more interesting as [VMware server 1.0.4 is available for Ubuntu|https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue38#head-8c012bcaf520599d531e7f8eb082af592374163a|UbuntuWeeklyNewsletter/Issue38] as a ready to install package.

I'll also be trying VirtualBox anyway and I'll post my results about how the two solutions compare.

Regards, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari|My wiki profile]

[former_member185837 · Accepted solution]

Hello James, that was an interesting suggestion, thanks!

Here's a brief comparison of some commercial alternatives:

• Parallels Workstation 2.2 $49.99, free 15 day trial - http://www.parallels.com - http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=1122 - http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.24/24.02/VirtualizationBenchmark.

• CrossOver Linux Standard $39.95, free 30 day trial, but Excel 2007 is not supported ! - http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxoffice

• Win4Lin Pro Desktop $49.99, trial? - http://win4lin.net

• VMware Workstation 6 $189.00, free 30 day trial

Cheers, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari|My wiki profile]

Edited by: Davide Cavallari on Jan 2, 2008 3:31 PM

[MarkusRest · Accepted solution]

why is wine missing in your List?

First of all: if you have just one PC, it is just a bad idea to start a VM while a SAP-Server is running on it, since you have much more power than a "normal" Desktop PC has.

I think crossover Office, Wine or something like that should be much more usable. than any VM.

[former_member185837 · Accepted solution]

Hi Markus, thanks for your comment.

The list I posted comprises only commercial products. However it's true Wine hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet.

My last experience with Wine was several years ago. I don't know what level of support it provides today for Windows applications. Keep in mind that running SAP BI frontend tools imposes several system requirements, e.g. MS Office >= 2003 and .NET framework 2.0. Can the Wine environment run these applications indeed?

Finally, could you please explain again what you mean with it is just a bad idea to start a VM while a SAP Server is running on it ? In this case, it's not the SAP appserver that would run on the VM, but the SAP BI frontend tools (BEx Analyzer, Query Designer, MS Excel, .NET framework, etc.).

Regards, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari|My wiki profile]

Edited by: Davide Cavallari on Jan 6, 2008 11:45 PM

[Former Member · Accepted solution]

Hi Davide

Just curious to know if you came out with any solution.

The Linux distro I've been using is SLED 10 which runs vmware workstation just fine.

You can either run the entire SAP environment on a Windows XP virtual machine ( or multiple VM's if your hardware is up to it to replicate a "Real SAP environment") or just use the VM for the SAP Front end pieces such as SAPGUI, BEX etc etc.

Unless you've downloaded the vmware version of the SAP trial you'll need a 64 bit Linux to install the Sap trial , however your Windows VM's can be either 32 or 64 bit versions.

I'm just curious also in apart from the cost is there any problem in using vmware server (free) compared with vmware workstatio (around USD 180).

Cheers

jimbo

[Former Member]

Have you tried this Windows XP remote desktop? It works basically on any platform!

[Former Member]

Can you not access the Bex through the Web Browser?

regards,

tamilboy

[former_member185837]

Hi tamilboy,

your suggestion would be effective for the end user only. If you're a developer, you need to run the development tools provided by the BEx suite (e.g. query designer). On the other hand, the BEx Analyzer itself provides more powerful functionality than the BEx Web Analyzer.

Moreover, the java SAP GUI doesn't support some fundamental functionality (e.g. process chain management) needed by a BI administrator.

Thanks, [Davide|https://wiki.sdn.sap.com/wiki/display/profile/Davide+Cavallari]

Edited by: Davide Cavallari on Dec 27, 2007 12:35 PM